Andrea Bonsey, Welcome to the Get Hired Up podcast!

Andrea Bonsey

Thank you, Maureen. Good to be here.

Maureen Farmer

Yes, it's my pleasure. And this is something that we've talked about doing for a very long time. In fact, I've somewhat nagged Andrea, to join the show to talk about this very, very important topic. And I'm sure there's probably a more technical term or clinical term for what we're about to talk about. I don't know what it is, but we refer to it colloquially as the Sunday scaries. And really, the Sunday scaries is something that comes up that along with impostor syndrome with a lot of the clients that I work with Andrea, so before we launch into it, why don't you talk a little bit about your practice and your background, and then we'll launch into the actual topic.

Andrea Bonsey

I'm a registered psychotherapist in Ontario, and I'm also a career and life coach. I'm originally from the UK as you might be able to tell through my accent, came to Canada in 2000, I've worked and lived in Halifax in Nova Scotia, I'm now based in Toronto in Ontario. So I have a solo private practice, which I love, I really enjoy. And my personal work really is around my own balance, so that I can love my work, continue to love my work, but also show up in my life outside of work as well. And I find that balance is different at different times in my life, what you're talking about today, Maureen with the Sunday scaries. Or the other word that we've used, I know when we've talked privately is dread. I've also experienced that throughout my life, linked probably to the way I've thought about myself, and socialized as a kind of not enoughness, or I don't have control or who's going to employ me, why me I'm not good enough, all of those things that I think many of us struggle with. But my work is also trying to practice what I preach, and supporting clients to live their most fulfilled lives and to find their voice. That's a big piece that's been in my own personal journey. And it's something I help clients with. So being able to show up fully and to use their voice in a way that's effective and safe for them

Maureen Farmer

Thank you for that. And have you ever heard or the term Sunday scaries? Or is that something new for you? I've just learned that that term recently. But I can relate to it as well from growing up and through school through my corporate career. I don't feel the same way now as I once did, probably because there's probably a little bit more control over my life now that I'm in my own private practice in business for myself, but but certainly my clients as well, from every possible scenario industry, at very, very, very senior levels, men and women, and most of the clients I work with are men. And it is a very, very common theme in this work. Because typically, the clients will come to someone like you or me when they are seeking some type of a change or some type of a solution for our current in my case, work related challenge. So having said that, are you familiar with that term?

Andrea Bonsey

No, it was actually something you introduced me to. But it makes complete sense. And it's something I've heard phrased in different ways, which is that end of the weekend or end of the summer holidays or end of any kind of time away from work, that sense of dread of fear of going back or anxious, fluttery feelings or not quite being able to put your finger on what's wrong, but just not wanting to get out of bed the next morning. So yes, it's it's something that I hear clients talk about a lot, actually. But Sunday scaries is a new phrase.

Maureen Farmer

I can relate to it. I remember as a child, during certain grades in elementary school, and even middle school in high school for that matter, depending on the year, depending on how I was feeling that that sense of dread on a Sunday evening, knowing that tomorrow I had to face you know, whatever it was that was bothering me at the time, and no one ever talked about it. Now I grew up in the late 60s and early 70s. So it was a different era. But no one there was no name for it back then I couldn't really articulate my anxiety to anyone because I didn't have words to express it. But certainly I eat certain triggers. We talked about this in the pre call. There is a particular theme song from a TV show and when I hear it today, it takes me back to that Sunday night because this particular show would come on on Sunday evenings and when I would hear this show the ending of the show particularly it signaled time to head off to bed and I'd be alone with all of these, you know these thoughts, so why don't we delve into it? I have a few questions here. Why do we feel this way?

Andrea Bonsey

Well, first of all, I'll say I experienced exactly what you experienced or very similar to what you experienced mine. Going to school was a huge fluttery nerve wracking experience. I dread I dreaded Sunday evenings. And you had your theme song. My parents used to play at Simon and Garfunkel on a Sunday evening. And for years, I couldn't listen. Now, but for years, I couldn't listen to them because that their music just was there was just something melancholy for me about it. So I suppose I see it as a form of fear, and particularly when we've experienced it as children, but no, and as adults too, but as children, we have very little control in our lives, there's no option you're going to school tomorrow. That's it unless you have a terrible stomachache, and even then you might be pushed off to school anyway. So I do think that comes back up again, as adults when we're feeling triggered in some way. So when we're feeling a lack of control, at when there maybe is something that is chronic or acute going on. So it might be that we're working with managers or coworkers that it just is beginning to feel unhealthy. Or it might be there is something we're putting off doing. Because there's a lot of fear there. And instead of being able to slow it down and process what's happening to us, we just live with this constant sensation really in our body that can also connect to all of these certain thinking patterns that just keep us feeling very stuck.

Maureen Farmer

So my next question was going to be who feels this way, but it sounds as though most of us do feel that way from time to time. So I guess there's a certain degree of comfort and knowing that, that it's it's common that most people feel this way. So how can we just arm it? And I know this is a podcast, and this is not a therapy session. But what are some of the strategies potentially for disarming it or or managing it?

Andrea Bonsey

The first part is awareness. So, identifying that you have this particular feeling what I do when I'm working with clients, or when I'm practicing myself is just recognizing where I'm holding this kind of tension in my body so that it's a somatic piece. Where is this for me, it's in my it tends to be my gut, there's a real constriction. But if I slow it down and stay with it, I can also feel my neck is very tight, my shoulders, I'm, there's no relaxation in my body. But it starts with, okay, where, where do I notice it first. So if you're listening to this, and there is this feeling is familiar, see if you can just sit with it, which is actually what we really don't want to do. We're always trying to run away from the uncomfortable feelings. That's just what it is to be human. But actually, the practice is to slow down and be with it pay attention. The other part I would look at is, can you sit with? What is it that this fear or this dread? Sunday scaries? What do they need from me? Not why why can sometimes just be too big. But if you can check in with that part of you that is feeling this dread, or this anxiety or the Sunday scaries to be able to ask that part, which might sound a bit woo-woo. But it can really work. As that part of you. What do you need? What do you need from me? How can I help? And that can be journaling, going for a run a walk, having a hug from a loved one, stroking the dog, having a hot shower, whatever it is, that's going to move, you slow it down. And the other question to sit with and I suggest journaling because otherwise what's happening is things are just going round and round in our head. Probably we've already got enough of that going on.

Maureen Farmer

Absolutely. So if I may ask for a moment, what is journaling? Maybe a lot of people don't know what that is and how to do it.

Andrea Bonsey

In its most simple form, it's writing something down, and so it's out of your head. And that can be in your phone, it can be on your iPad, it can be on a spiral bound notebook from the dollar store. What you just write down, you just write it down. You don't think about spelling, you don't feel. Think about punctuation, you just write down what's going on, in your own words as much as you can remembering you can destroy that page afterwards. This is not school. This is not homework. This is just trying to create some space in your mind. Rather than have everything going round in that loop to disrupt the loop to actually write it out and The process of writing it out can help. And again, isn't this is not for everybody journaling doesn't work for everybody, I don't think. But if we give it a try, you might find it can be quite helpful. The writing it down allows us a certain kind of perspective that we don't have when things are rushing through our mind. So if a question is, what's what do I need? Right now?

Maureen Farmer

I'm a huge fan of an author. He's since passed. And I can't remember if we spoke about him during the pre call. Dr. Maxwell Maltz. He wrote the book called Psycho Cybernetics. I don't know if you're familiar with the I did mention that. Yeah, what the book is just amazing. And if anyone is interested, definitely pick it up, it is has really changed my inner world in a lot of ways, because one of the activities he has suggested to do is to name the feeling that you're feeling. So I'm feeling anxious. And then then you reassure yourself by saying, and I probably don't have this exactly correct, but this is the gist of it, to remind yourself, it is just a feeling. And it will pass. And he also talks about theater of the mind, which is, which is brilliant, the activities that he recommends in the book, work for me, and they're very practical, and they're also very powerful. And so those types of activities can be incredibly helpful before walking into a meeting or getting ready for a podcast, or, or whatever it might be, you know, if you feel like, you're going to be in an evaluative situation, if you name it. And then again, to your point about, you know, soothing, self soothing your, you know, getting a hug, or going for a walk or something like that the somatic piece.

Andrea Bonsey

No, I think that's beautiful, I think it is really important to be able to find language for how we're feeling because as as I see it, how I work is our emotions, our messages, but we don't want them running the show. So we don't want to dread running the show. Right? Right. You need to listen to them. So they can inform us of what's happening with that in a world. Because our inner world, whether we like it or not, is going to shape her outer world, how we react, how we behave, the actions, we take the thoughts that we have. So if we can slow it down to understand, okay, and feeling angry, just name it and feeling scared. That can be really helpful. But as you were talking, Maureen, one of the things that came up for me was the Sunday scaries I see is different to feeling anxious, we all feel anxious, and it comes and goes. The Sunday scaries for me or dread tends to be ongoing, which tends to mean that is something that needs some examination. Gotcha happening, that's making us feel right, on a regular basis.

Maureen Farmer

I can give an example from my childhood. In grade five, it was a guy by the name of I think it was great 5/5 grade, Terry Terry, so I won't say his last name in case he's listening. And he was a dreadful bully at school. And I remember he would wait for me in the corner of Steven Street in Pleasant Street. And I remember as if it were yesterday. So you know, that passed. And I'm not sure how I dealt with it. But it did eventually pass. But I do remember I do recall that being a significant issue. In my elementary school career.

Andrea Bonsey

Yeah, I'm so sorry. It's bullying in school, so many adults still can feel who experienced it. And there are many of us and I would say bullying at school to you don't forget it. It's it's still somatically there. You know, those buttons can be pushed again, fear. And so the ongoing dread of going to school, knowing that you've got to experience this. And also feeling out of your control, feeling powerless, I think really contributes to things like the Sunday scaries. So you know, as an adult, so there was, you know, I'm doing this podcast with you this morning. I had some anxiety but I didn't have dread, right? I didn't have Sunday scaries. If we're struggling with dread, my belief is it's really important to do some reflection to what's what's going on. And you were asking earlier about what can we do. The other activity I often suggest is I think it's Stephen Covey his circles of control. So if you imagine three circles, this is how I envisage it and how I use it. The inner circle is your circle of control. There is a set circle around it, which is your circle of influence. And the circle around the two of those is the circle of concern where we have no control. Now, often we our mind, our thoughts are out in that zone of no control, right. And understandably, if you think about what's going on in the world, at this time, all of the information that bombards us about dreadful things happen. However, for our own mental and emotional wellness, we need to be concentrating on that inner circle, the circle of control and the circle of influence. The circle of control are things like managing our own thoughts, or in reactions or in behaviors, the circle of influence is okay, how do I use my voice? What can I support somebody else to understand, but that circle has no sense of I have control of the outcome. Right? So when we are feeling overwhelmed, so for example, if you're, you've got the Sunday scaries. And there is something going on at work to be able to come back to okay, what is in my circle of control? Right? Can I do and say what actually is the issue here? Is my manager not listening to me? Am I being pushed out? Am I being pulled down? Is it a toxic work environment? How do I slow it down enough to come back to what's in my area of control and what's in my area of influence? Otherwise, we're feeling powerless, because we're in that outer circle of no control. And we give our control to others, or we sense that others have control. And we're not connecting to our own. Does that make sense?

Maureen Farmer

It makes perfect sense. It's a brilliant model. And I can see it in my mind as well. And I can identify with with much of it, you know, waiting for people to get back to you or to respond or whatever it might be. It can be dreadfully concerning. But knowing what and I heard someone the other day, call it the zone of control. And it's the first time I had heard it described in that way. But it's very, very helpful. Because, you know, when we know what we have control over what we don't have control over, it does give you a sense of control, I suppose.

Andrea Bonsey

Right? Absolutely. You know, what, we don't have control, rather than trying to control that part.

Maureen Farmer

Yeah, so true. So true.

Andrea Bonsey

And I think it helps with the sense of overwhelm that comes with the Sunday scaries as well, which feels too big. Whereas if we can slow it down and come back to the center, which is okay, what can I do. So tonight, I can work on resting, even though I will go into work, I'm not going to feel better, necessarily, this is not about feeling better is about acknowledging, I feel like this, it's okay to feel like this. Tomorrow, I'm going to go to work. And I'm going to look after myself, I'm going to make sure I take a lunch, or I'm going to go out for a walk at lunchtime. Or I'm going to think about who I can connect with who can support me who can help me. Because I think the Sunday scares as well. And that feeling of powerlessness. Also tell us a story that we're alone.

Maureen Farmer

Right? It's a very alone feeling. Certainly, yeah.

Andrea Bonsey

And, you know, part of the antidote to that. But I think maybe even the biggest part is connection.

Maureen Farmer

And that's difficult sometimes to depending on the type of work you're doing. Sometimes you're not able to share your concerns because of confidentiality, you know, you've maybe are an attorney or a doctor or a therapist, you know, and you're privy to some information that you can't disclose for those reasons. And I guess that goes back to what you were talking about earlier, in terms of boundaries, right, understanding, you know, maybe your client has this monumental problem. But essentially, it's their problem and not yours, not to sound harsh, but, but they that they own that they own that problem, you don't. 

Andrea Bonsey

And I think, you know, one of the pieces that I learnt when I was going through my my master's was to believe that each individual can manage what's going on for them. They have the answer internally, right. My role is not advice giving. It's to ask the right questions to help my client recognize what they can do, what they need, who they are.

Maureen Farmer

So in the coaching world, we call that you coach the person and not the problem.

Andrea Bonsey

Yeah, yes, because I'm not a rescuer. Even though I've had to do my own work to not be rescuer I am not a rescuer. That's not my role. And I know we often go I know I've been to my own counselor and coaches hoping somebody will give me the answers. You know, our friends give us the answer answers. People are always giving us the answers. We don't want any answers. We want to work out what's best, and what most authentic for us

Maureen Farmer

We want to feel self sufficient and to feel and resourceful, and resourceful and resilient. Resilient.

Andrea Bonsey

You talked last time, about the tall poppy syndrome, which I heard. But I hadn't. You know, I've read a little bit more about it. And I think that can be a really interesting piece in dread.

Maureen Farmer

And this is a theme I see a lot of experienced it a little bit myself. And if I think of the podcast episode, with Linda lopec, on impostor syndrome, she talks about the imposter syndrome being an affliction of high performing people or people who get things done, and so forth. So there's a little bit of a sisterhood here a little bit of a connection between the two phenomena. And I see this a lot with women, I think men experienced that as well, they just don't articulate it quite the same way. And that is, you know, they may have a great idea. They may move forward with, you know, executing on a plan. And they are pulled back by their manager. And you mentioned earlier in the call about being pulled back. And I think that's a tremendous, it's, it causes tremendous harm, because it erodes our confidence.

Andrea Bonsey

Yes. And if it's happening over time, that feeds the dread, right, because now we're self doubting, as well.

Maureen Farmer

Right? So I guess the question would be, I often hear this question, and maybe you do as well is, you know, when to whine, when do I know when to go? And I'm gonna give my answer before you give yours.

Well, I'm going to give you my perspective, maybe it's not an answer. And I do realize that there is a line here that needs to be drawn between, you know, Dread, and harassment. And I won't go there. But I will say this is that often, in my world, from every level, right up to the board chair, literally to the board chair will say, I need to get out of here. This is a toxic environment. And I accept that. So when we peel back the layers of that toxicity, we sometimes find a little bit of a theme. And my perspective is that I want my client to have coping mechanisms wherever they go. I want them to learn some strategies for dealing with some of the perceived because sometimes it is perceived toxicity. So you know, I need to get out of here. Well, you can't keep running from company to company to company because guess what, the type of person that may influence you or intimidate you. I mean, people are people, humans are everywhere. And they're not specific to a specific industry or specific company. So I have a number of tools that I use, we and we use the disc leadership assessment. And it helps to it really helps our clients to understand others behaviors and the motivations, the typical motivations behind the behaviors. And it's possible how we're interpreting those behaviors is inaccurate. And I've tested this a few times with my own family, because there's four of us in the family, we all have different disc styles. And so when I understand my husband, his behavior is not driven by anything malicious, he's just driven by being incredibly accurate and precise. That's his world. That's his language. That's, you know, how he's, he's wired. Whereas I come at conversation through a relationship lens. So we're very, very different that way. And then our two daughters are somewhat opposite as well. So when Brenna when she explains something in a very analytical way. I have to be patient because that's her expression. That's how she expresses her experience. And you know, even though I may have maybe I got it five minutes ago, and she's still explaining but it's her expression.

And here I'm giving away all my family secrets here but so we're all different and when we in the tool and all of my colleagues and Maddie, our Podcast Producer, she said that the DISC assessment is it's the closest thing to a human being manual that you can get because it really helps to understand human behavior in different content. texts. And so what I help my clients understand is that yes, in certain situations, we can adapt our behavior. And sometimes we have to adapt our behavior. Adapting behavior is a way of coping. And hopefully we don't have to adapt to a degree to an extreme degree. But when we can adapt in a way that honors the relationship with the other person still aligned with our values and our authenticity, but when we can just slightly change the way we present ourselves or the way we show up being a little bit more kind, or patient or whatever it might be, it can really impact the quality of that relationships. And so, you know, the number of people who have come through my practice saying, you know, I've got to get out of here. And I say, well, let's just wait here, what can we do? What can we do to understand the other and to maybe look at our own thinking a little bit in our own responses. And if we can get, you know, if we can get halfway there, maybe maybe we can build the relationship. And I won't say salvage, that sounds extreme. But if we can collaborate in a different way, or show up in a different way, even if we have to adapt our behavior a little bit, I think it can go a long way. And that's one tool that we use in at Westgate to help our clients navigate.

Andrea Bonsey

Yes, beautiful. It sounds like it. I haven't. I have I've heard of the tool. I haven't been through the tool. It sounds really helpful. Yeah. So you know, I work with slightly different language to you, but it's the same kind of lens, really, which is how do we look at our mindset? What triggers us? In the other? How would we like to show up differently? And part of that is working on the mindset of compassion, actually, to some extent, which is, can we look at a different story narrative of what might be going on for the other. But I'm also very conscious of sometimes, as you said, this harassment and it is toxic. And so yes, you know, it's supporting people not to, particularly when I've worked with people who are used to accommodating rather than adapting, which means they lose themselves in the process, right. Whereas, you know, if we're adapting, we're kind of there's a professional piece to it, we have boundaries.

Maureen Farmer

It's intentional, and it's respectful.

Andrea Bonsey

I suppose that's the other piece for me around voice. Sometimes it's not safe to use our voice, it's not safe to say what we need or what needs to change. So if I'm talking about that with a client, and that's consistent, then it's likely that one of the things that person needs to do is know what their other plans are, to leave that environment. So one of the pieces that came up for me around accepting others as they are so for example, if we see somebody and we believe that they are out to get us they might be maybe they are, maybe it's the tall poppy syndrome, maybe they're pulling us down that security's just too strong. But maybe they've got stuff going on in their life, and they're not showing up well at the moment, and they're not behaving well. But it's actually not personal. So one of the books that actually made a big difference to me years ago, is a book people seem to love or hate, called Loving What Is by Byron Katie. And the whole idea of it is looking at our own narrative. When we get stuck in the narrative that the other person is behaving a certain way because of X, Y, and Z. We're stuck in that narrative, we're not looking at alternatives. So, Loving What Is by Byron Katie.

Self compassion allows for some compassion of the other. Now compassion does not mean we go in and we just say yes to everything, of course, still requires boundaries and saying, No. The other activity I sometimes give to people whilst they're assessing what's going on is you know, is there something that they can shift internally that might make a difference is to ask people to start off with writing a letter to the person that they're upset with. Not when this letter never gets sent.

Maureen Farmer

Let's make that clear!

Andrea Bonsey

It's just gonna be torn up burnt, flushed down the toilet afterwards, doesn't matter. The processes, allowing yourself to listen to the hurt, the anger, the fear, whatever it is, so you are as if you're going to send it to that person you do not. Let me be clear. Then you give it a little bit of a break and you come back with your professional self or your more adult grounded and you write another letter to that person.

Maureen Farmer

Oh, I've not heard this. I've heard the first one before but not the second one. I'll let you repeat that I interrupted you there. Sorry.

Andrea Bonsey

So the first letter is called transactional analysis, it might be what's coming from the child that was scared, right?

Maureen Farmer

It's the child and the adult.

Andrea Bonsey

The child and the adult. Yes. So we start with the child because the child has to be hurt, not dismissed. But then we give it some space, and we come back when we're feeling more grounded. Okay, now I'm adult, the adults now going to take the adults going to manage this, the adult might leave the environment, but the adult might work out what they want to say to this person that is causing problems. So they write a letter, again, that never gets sent. The reason we write it is because as we're writing it, we are finding language we're articulating to ourselves. So when the opportunity for conversation comes up with actually prepared, we already have some sentences, a way of looking at it more ready, more connected to ourselves and what we need. So that's one, that's one suggestion. That's excellent. I think sometimes that first letter in particular, as soon as we give that childlike or powerless part of ourselves voice, they have a lot to say. But the idea is not to be critical of ourselves as we're writing it. Right? Not to try and be grown up about. net out what we feel.

Maureen Farmer

That's excellent. So the book, this activity, and then we talked a little bit before about in the moment, when we are in need, when we are feeling that that sense of dread, asking ourselves, what do we need? Which could be, you know, maybe some fresh air or, you know, a hug or whatever met phone call with a friend?

Andrea Bonsey

Yes, absolutely. So what's going to sooth their nervous system? System is in, possibly fight or flight ready to go? Or it's going to drop down into kind of a collapse place where we're just feeling just overwhelmed.

Maureen Farmer

And it's fight, flight, or freeze.

Andrea Bonsey

They're the three main ones. Yes. So we want to get back into sometimes what's called the window of tolerance, which is where we can feel all the feelings but we're still connected, we're still able to when we fight or flight or freeze, we have a completely different narrative of that. And the other piece that comes up for me, Maureen, and I think we talked about it in our pre talk is that piece around how hard it is when we are not feeling that we have power, but how hard it is as well, when we are not feeling we are following our own authentic self, our own. If we're beginning to be expected to act in a way that just does not feel in alignment with who we are, and we're asked to do that time and time again. Which brings me to the other suggestion for reading or he also does YouTubes, which are great. His gabble Mati. So he comes from he's a, he was a medical doctor in Vancouver, Z side. And as originally from Europe, he has a really challenging chart. I think he was actually born in the concentration camp. Oh, wow. Okay, well, I know his parents were in them as a child came to Canada. I just love what he writes. I love how authentic keep is. Can you spell his name, please? Yes, his first name is Gabor Gabo R. And his last name is Matty M A tea. And he talks about when we're children. The need we have two needs. These two needs that Gabor Matta talks about in childhood tend to cause tension, one of them needs his authenticity to be our unique self. And the other need is belonging, which is a survival need. And how I've interpreted what he says is belonging will always win. Because belonging means survival. So we tend to push down our authentic self.

Maureen Farmer

I think we can all relate to that. It brings me back to the term peer pressure as a child and watching that type of behavior. You'll go where you're accepted. That's where you want to be.

Andrea Bonsey

That's right. Absolutely. We have peers, we have family. We have our cultures, communities, societies. We're all being given these external messages. How we should be, you know, I think of a phrase when I grew up in the UK, that was very good at keeping you in your place, which is, you know, don't get too big for your boots. Yes, one right. Do not your head will not get through the door. Yes, yes, these constant little drips of story, which is why too much or too much. So what does the other need from me in order for me to be accepted? And so of course, of course, we carry some of those things into adulthood. And of course, we carry some of those things into our work relationships. How do you want me to be many of the people I work with when we're working with their career and work related challenges? They're so tired of showing up in a certain way that right?

Maureen Farmer

It's exhausting. And it's demoralizing.

Andrea Bonsey

And feeds into the Sunday scaries. Because we're not showing up and going into the day as ourselves, put on masks...

Maureen Farmer

Right! One of my colleagues and I've, I've mentioned this, this is the third time and the third podcast. I've mentioned this, but it's just resonated with me so much. I was at a conference in Philadelphia last year. And it was a conference on Well, it was a career Thought Leaders Conference, but I was actually giving a presentation at the time. I'm one of the audience participants. Her name is Valerie Sokolowski, we're talking about personal branding. And there's a lot of language around personal branding that I believe is misunderstood. But the one thing that she said, and it still resonates with me today is that the objective of personal branding is how she put it is to wipe the mask off your face. I love that because that's exactly what this is. This podcast is not about personal branding. But when we talk about authenticity and values, alignment, and messaging, that's what personal branding is. It's not about logos and colors and things like that. It's about it's about showing up authentically, and being able to own that and to honor that.

Andrea Bonsey

Yes, absolutely. I love that. I love that. What also does come up for me though, with masks is, and this goes back to I remember a class, that university. Another perspective is that we have to wear masks that must protect sure the messy the potential of the, you know, we don't want to take into our work environments in a work meeting. But it's knowing that we have space to take the masks off, it's knowing that we have different different.

Maureen Farmer

So the mask is adaptive behavior. Yes, it's adapting behavior for us that that lens, yeah, the the authenticity, the personal branding is is is is understanding how, and when how we can show up authentically and behave in a way that's consistent and aligns with our values. When it's safe to do so. Yes.

Why don't you tell us a little bit about your practice and the types of clients that you're working with now and then I have a couple of other kind of fun questions.

Andrea Bonsey

So at the moment, I have to, I have two main hats. So one hat is my psychotherapy hat. I work with clients, variety of clients, it tends to be around relationship, but that could be relationship in the home, it could be relationship in the world, it could be relationships at work. But that tends to be a key theme for most of us. We're not feeling connected. There's been a lot of that, particularly over the last few years, I think we've relationships have been really impacted in so many ways. I work from my home office, I work so low. I tend to work primarily online these days, thanks to the pandemic. Missing people in person, but also online is so convenient.

Maureen Farmer

And if you're listening here, we're not doing the video portion for the podcast. But I can see Andrea, she's got a beautiful office there I can see and Andrew and I have been friends and known each other for quite a long time. But we've never actually met in person. Have we?

Andrea Bonsey

Not yet! I know I've tried and things haven't worked them. Yet!

And the other part of my business is I am a coach. And I've been primarily working around people's transitional phases. I'm in Korea. And so I do a lot of work around the kind of who am I? So this whole piece around challenge of belonging and authenticity. How do we step into ourselves more fully? The how do we find work that feels more meaningful? That is in alignment.

So I love, I love my work. I sometimes have to stop and take a little bit of respite so that I can practice what I'm busy supporting. But yeah, I feel like I've found my meaning.

Maureen Farmer

So important. It's so important.

How can people get in touch with you, Andrea?

Andrea Bonsey

I have two websites. My first one is Andreabonsey.com. That will lead you to my coaching site. And I have navigationcounseling.ca. And that will lead you to my psychotherapy. Now. I can only work with clients in Ontario for psychotherapy. Coaching, I can see people worldwide. And the best email would be Andrea at Andrea bonsey.com.

Maureen Farmer

Awesome. And we'll have that in the show notes as well. Okay, so, couple more questions before I let you go. First one is what has surprised you most in your career so far?

Andrea Bonsey

What has surprised me...I'm going to actually say myself. What comes up for me is having started my own business. That That surprised me. That's me, too. When I started my own business, I have made it successful in my terms, and been able to support myself to live the life I have. That has been the biggest surprise. I think I grew up in a family that it was it was left leaning. My dad was a trade union member. Business was a dirty word. Yes, yes. And so to actually create a business that makes a difference that supports my livelihood has been awesome.

Maureen Farmer

That's lovely. Thank you for sharing that. That's lovely. Okay. And the last question I have is one of restaurants. So Maddie and I are compiling a list of restaurants that we release at Christmas time or holiday season every year. And it's growing. We're going into our third year now. So do you have a restaurant that you could recommend? It doesn't have to be in your hometown, it could be anywhere that you enjoy.

Andrea Bonsey

No, I'm gonna give you one in my hometown. It's an Indian restaurant just down the road from me. So I can walk down there to get takeout. And it's called Kothur. It's on Lake Shore in Mimico, which is in Toronto. But it's just it's authentic. I'd love going there particularly for lunch because they have a lunch menu. Oh, it's just delicious. Really good!

Maureen Farmer

That sounds lovely. So we'll have we'll make sure that that gets on the list.

So thank you so much, Andrea for today. I know it's been months and months and months since we've been since I've been able I've recruited to I've been recruiting you for a long time. So thank you so much for your kindness and generosity. I really enjoyed it and I know our listeners will too!

Andrea Bonsey

Thank you so much, Maureen!