Welcome back to the Get Hired Up podcast, Brendon!

Brendan St. Jacques

It's good to be back. Glad I made it a second time.

Maureen Farmer

So much has happened. I think the last time we had a conversation like this was during the pandemic, and we were just actually building this podcast. And it's been nearly two years later. So what's new in the past two years?

Brendan St. Jacques

Ya know, it's been an interesting journey, going from a place of extreme challenge when it comes to my career and working, obviously, going through the pandemic to a place of growth. And I feel that without that major challenge, navigating through working for a hospitality company and hotel company, and getting through that to where I am now is just, it's just tremendous.

Maureen Farmer

Likely people won't know that you were I think you were one of the only people in the global organization in the sales division that wasn't furloughed during COVID. Is that correct?

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah, we went through a massive reorganization at furlough at the company at IHG, it was pretty much, you know, I want to say a little more than 50% of the global sales team was was furloughed. So managing through that and making sure customers were caught up to speed with what we were doing, at the same time, trying to work hard to ensure that we find new growth and grow revenue as much as possible through through the pandemic was also important. So there was a lot of tough conversations that went on with customers that we had to make. But overall, I would say thanks to the strong relationships that I was able to set up and maintain, with customers allowed for those conversations to be a little bit easier, as a baseline, as long as you have trust between the two companies, that having those difficult conversations becomes a lot easier. And it's something that I carry with me. And I find, and I know that how important it is, with all the accounts and customers that I work with that there has to be that base level of trust between us to be able to put our best foot forward and make sure that we can we can accomplish more as we grow revenue.

Maureen Farmer

It's interesting talking about trust, it's a common theme that comes up in this podcast consistently. And, and I'm learning one not learning, I guess I'm realizing the critical importance of trust, with with custom with everyone. I mean, that's how it all how it all comes together, and hence how relationships grow. And I appreciate that more so than ever. And I would love to know a little bit about what types of things you did during the pandemic to help the organization grow. Are you able to talk a little bit about that?

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah, absolutely, you have to be an expert on the market that you're working in, you have to be an expert in the segment of business that you're going after to attract to the to the company. And the reason for that is when something like that happens, you have to be able to pivot and find the opportunities as best you can. And the segment that I was working in was sports and attracting to to the company was well versed and I understood, so it was easy, easy at the time for me to pinpoint where activity was happening. As restrictions changed in different states and in different cities and counties, I was able to find those opportunities and make sure that we were maximizing and getting as much market share out of those events that we could versus our competition. That's one aspect of it. The other is when revenue is down resources and access to resources become very tight. So you have to be able to navigate internally and manage within the company to ensure that, yes, when you can identify something that's a revenue source, that you're able to get the resources you need to maximize that revenue opportunity. And so in this case, when other segments were slower, it became a priority to find people within our company to come help us out because we were on a case a goldmine of an opportunity during the pandemic, and needed to get in capture as much as we can be more responsive to customers and just close as much business as we can which which we did, which I did, which I was able to guide and bring on some new team members to come in and help us to drive and capture that business.

Maureen Farmer

What was the goldmine?

Brendan St. Jacques

Oh it was just the sports opportunity. So you know, a lot of sports business was still traveling—there wasn't a lot of air travel that was associated with sports travel, so the families would hit the road and they would be off driving and of course, we had a lot of hotels that were along highways and smaller communities with with less restrictions. And so we just went after it. We went out for as much as that business as we could and really accomplish some great things where we were down in revenue, but not as much as some other segments of business for the company.

Maureen Farmer

Sure. And when you're talking about sports, are you talking about amateur sports, professional sports? Both? Tell us a little bit about that.

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah so that was interesting. I felt that the professional leagues in some of their efforts, whether it was bubbling in certain cities, or certain areas, they really kind of just did their own thing. But they sort of set the tone for the rest of this industry as well, that sort of trickled down to the colleges. And then down to the youth and amateur level, where we really capitalized was on this youth travel, it was every so often restrictions would lift or change. And these tournament organizers were just so desperate, they needed money, they needed revenue coming in, and that's how they make them is off these tournaments so that something would pop up and event would go on. And we had to make sure that our hotels in that area were aligned to capture that business.

Maureen Farmer

So you would have established relationships with tournament organizers through the hotel. Of course, that makes sense.

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah, exactly. So we had these established relationships. And a good point of reference is just expanding that network as much as possible. So for us, in this case, we wanted to make sure that with any travel agencies or third parties, we had relationships set up. We knew what was going on with the actual tournament organizer, we had great relationships with our hotels on the ground level to let us know what was going on in their market. So all those sort of facets of networking were so important. And the same is could be said for the tourism officers that were still up and running, making sure we were connected in there, find out what's going on in their market. So that whole entire ecosystem of people we needed to make sure we we had strong connections.

Maureen Farmer

And I think I notice about you is that you brought in this sports program to IHG when you were there, it was on program that had existed before is that right?

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah. So I was part of the early team that helped develop a program to attract youth sports to IHG was one of the early members in designing that and rolling it out, which was very exciting. It was a very cool, cool project. And it definitely those first years really lit the fire under me because we were working on something so cool. And something sort of groundbreaking for the company at the time, that really, really got me engaged and had had a lot of fun in those in those first years, rolling that out and creating the product.

Maureen Farmer

And for the listener here if you're interested in listening to the previous conversation I had with Brendon it's very, very interesting, we talk a little bit more about that, we'll make sure that we have the episode reference in the show notes. So we'll do that for you. So it's been a couple of years since since the pandemic started. We're just coming out of the lifting of major restrictions, people are traveling more, what are you doing now, these days, Brendon?

Brendan St. Jacques

I have joined a company called Sonder. It's a tech driven hospitality company. And something that sort of prompted this change was I needed to do something new, I wanted to get back to building something very cool, something that's going to really help people out, especially in the travel industry, and really just kind of stretch the skills that I have put me in a place where I have to work hard and help to create something. And so Sonder is a model that's different from what I'm used to in the hotel industry. I've always worked in a in a traditional hotel company. And I got most excited about Sonder because we are really changing the game in what hospitality looks like. And that's through the well designed places that we have throughout North America, Europe, and in Dubai as well.

Maureen Farmer

40 cities I saw on that website—40 cities.

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah, exactly. And I'm just excited to be a part of the team and really try to build something, there's a lot of focus on making sure that sports is on the forefront. And people think of Sonder when it comes to this specific market segment. So I've just been really entrenched with customers, again, relying on that trust that I built over years to try to attract them over and to come check out Sonder. So it's been it's been an awesome ride, a lot of work getting back to my roots of prospecting and finding new opportunities, which has been very exciting, as well as of course, you know, keeping a eye on the high level strategy of what we're trying to accomplish in attracting some unique segments to Sondra which I'm very excited about. It's been a fun journey so far.

Maureen Farmer

So tell us a little bit about Sonder and how it works.

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah, it's a different experience. So we have a combination of of hotels that we manage and work with as well as apartments. And it's the apartments that really, really attract me to Sonder. Because, you know, as an example, I stayed. When I was in New York City, I stayed at our location and Battery Park, and you're in a beautiful, well designed spot, tons of natural light, huge windows is beautiful. And at the same time, you have access to a full kitchen. And what I really enjoyed about the kitchen was there's a couple of things. One was a huge coffee drinker. So having a proper drip coffee machine where I can make a full pot and sip on it through the morning was perfect, as well, as you know, going out throughout New York City, you're grabbing great meals, there's some great smoked fish restaurants that you can pick up stuff, and you're able to bring it back into your Sonder. So one of the nights we went to Smith and Wollensky and my wife, Louise, she grabbed, you know, a huge ribeye steak. It's what you do when you go there. And it comes down. And she says, Oh, is this for two people, did I ordered correctly? And the guys like, No, this is for one. So she ate half. But then the other half she's able to bring back into the Sonder. And, you know, keep it in the fridge, so it stays okay. And then she could heat it up in the in the microwave oven that we had, it was a great stay.

Maureen Farmer

So essentially, these are apartment buildings that have been transformed into short and long stay units.

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah, exactly. Landlords and owners of buildings that are interested in having a base level of revenue coming in and not having to worry about individual tenants.

Maureen Farmer

Interesting. I'm using it myself. I'm going to New York in November. And then I'm looking at San Diego in March, and I'm it's down in the Gaslamp district. So I'm thinking, Well, you know, maybe I can make that work for the conference and have a couple of roommates with me. And that way we can collaborate because we'd like to collaborate when we're away at these conferences. And that would be a perfect way to do that. That would be different from a regular hotel. So that's great.

Brendan St. Jacques

Oh, no, that's exactly it. I mean, you're getting access to more space than what you would have at a traditional hotel, depending on the genre that you're booking, of course. But it's great for those type of gatherings where you can have these small meetings in the actual unit, especially when you have more space. Or if you're have multiple people in there, you can collaborate that way as well, right?

Maureen Farmer

So that way, you don't have to actually rent a conference room, you can actually bring someone back to your Saunder. And you know, all of your personal stuff is in the bedroom or bedrooms, then you have the other rooms that you can use for collaboration. I think that's brilliant.

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah, exactly. And I feel too, like if you're there, if you're traveling and you're you're staying for two or three or more nights, you definitely want to check out Saundra as a place to stay, that's going to give you more space. And just make it a little bit more comfortable. Like you know, like you're at home. It's also very warm and inviting, like I love showing off my Saunders when I'm on the road. So if I have, you know, colleagues that are in other industries, or they're off doing something else, I'd love to have them up, invite them up, you know, you can pack drinks in the fridge and invite them up to show...

Maureen Farmer

...It's not as awkward as a hotel room, you can't really take people into a hotel room when you're you know, doing or your business trips. And you know, bringing strangers into a hotel room is a bit of taboo. Whereas bringing somebody back to a sauna where you have the facilities and the amenities there is makes perfect sense for sure. 40 cities and growing I'm guessing?

Brendan St. Jacques

Right now we're focusing in on the markets in countries where we have Saunders and looking to expand for now but I'm sure in the future will be growing. I know the hospitality industry as a whole is is geared for some huge tech changes. I've read a couple of the white papers that IBM has published on the hospitality industry. And it's the same thing they know that this wave of tech change is coming. And for myself, I wanted to make sure that from a skill set point of view that I'm ready for this change that I know what it entails and what it takes to disrupt an industry, which is why I joined sonder so I can learn as I'm as we're going along. And so Saunders focus is to democratize travel by giving people access to a well designed place at a reasonable price so that the tech as it gets built out. Hopefully that opens up the travel opportunities for people to stay at a really nice place into the future.

Maureen Farmer

And really convenient locations as well, I might add. 

Brendan St. Jacques

Yes. It's very convenient locations!

Maureen Farmer

So I know you're a builder and innovator. You're a hunter, I know that you love building new relationships and new solutions. So tell us a little bit. I think it's the meeting planner exchange. Do you want to talk a little bit about that and how that's helping the industry?

Brendan St. Jacques

Yes, absolutely. So as part of my journey of working with you and through some of the networking that you are pushing me to do, I had actually connected with a recruiter and had a great conversation with him. There wasn't anything that he was looking for that aligned with my skills. One of the things that he said was, if you're looking to get into into tech, why don't you create your own tech company? And I said, Well, no, that's not something that I was really thinking of doing. But it kind of sat with me. So I, you know, I thought about it...

Maureen Farmer

And just to create some context for the listener here, you were really looking to transform your career and to move into something where you were very, very interested in technology and work. Sure, there was a number of different industries that we looked at, but how strategic for you to identify an opportunity in hospitality, as as this process of creating your own your own tech company, it's makes a lot of sense. To me, it's smart. I feel as though a lot of people when they are planning their career or planning a career change, they want to make a complete industry change. And while that is certainly possible, it takes a lot longer to make a complete industry change than it just to look at adjacencies. So that's what you did. You looked at adjacencies, and you dovetailed your interest and skill and technology, with the industry that you're already very familiar with. So I think that that is a very smart thing to do.

Brendan St. Jacques

And I feel that even with your advice, there were a few companies that when I was trying to make the transition, that were completely outside of the hospitality industry, but still in the tech space, and interviewing for those positions. I think we both in the conversations me and the interviewee, we kind of realized there wasn't that spark that comes from when I'm talking about hospitality, I'm talking about travel, like, it's something that really gets me excited. So there was a couple of companies in the customer relationship, CRM space that I was chatting with, and the healthcare and finance. And it just didn't create that spark, like something in the hospitality industry. So I think there was kind of this mutual agreement that it wasn't, wasn't a great fit, or didn't bring out the hunger in me and wanting to go after those roles.

Maureen Farmer

I also think, too, that having these conversations is part of the journey, because that's how you learn. And that's how you have, that's the discovery process. So having the conversation with recruiters, in these various verticals, is is part of that journey. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's not going to happen, especially when you're making a fairly big change, not going to happen overnight, you may think you know, what you want. I know, I've had that experience myself, but sometimes it's through that course of having conversations with others in other industries that you learn and validate your own interests and your own capabilities.

Brendan St. Jacques

It's true. I think, also, though, with with the work we did on finding my strengths through the 360 program, also helped with that. And it gave me the confidence when I was having these conversations that I could really confidently double down and promoting myself in those areas, whether it's new business development, you know, relationship driving, being driven itself, and being able to get through challenges, no matter what, and kind of come out on the other side successful. I think that those strengths that were identified really gave me the confidence in these conversations and what I'm bringing to the table, and how I'm going to help the company make money?

Maureen Farmer

Yeah, well, there's been a lot of research on some of the top leadership competencies that are of value to organizations today. And one of them is resilience. It's talked a lot about in the literature and in the research. So resilience, the ability to adapt to change, those are two really big capabilities that help to drive innovation really. And being able to adapt to major market events and crises, such as the pandemic has really created. It's the mother is the necessity of invention, as they say, and having the ability in the interest to embrace that and see where the opportunities are, where others may not see it, I think is a huge value proposition today, for sure. So tell us a little bit about the meeting planner exchange, if you'd like to do that. I'm very curious. I know a little bit about it, but not a whole lot. So tell us about your journey through that process.

Brendan St. Jacques

Yeah, absolutely. So the idea that was first sparked was I wanted to create a marketplace where event organizers and event professionals could do reviews of suppliers that they work with. Excellent so there's not anything exactly like that available. So that's where the product started. And I think I was extremely gung ho to get things rolling. So I made a few errors along the way. But it was, you know, part of the growing process. And I think, really, when I took on the most amount of learning was when I got connected in with invest Ottawa as incubator program. So I got into their program, and that's where I really learned how important it was to talk to customers to get down to the actual people that will be using your product, and interviewing them. And I was kind of doing that already. And I was surprised at myself that I hadn't done that already knowing that that's one of my stronger skill sets, I was entering a new space, I have to give myself some credit that at least I started...

Maureen Farmer

100% just doing it and initiating it. And I've heard the comment that you know, you can't see the label when you're in the jar. And that's exactly what it's all about. It's kind of like the 360 that we did with you. And that we do with with people all the time is that you don't necessarily see what others see. Right? Because you're you're you're in it, it's much more objective when you're able to help someone else go through that process. But when you're doing it yourself, it's so subjective, that there are certain barriers that arise that we're we don't recognize as barriers for ourselves. So the fact that you did it, and follow through, and now you've got this product. And I don't think there's any designer, inventor, entrepreneur out there today that didn't have that experience. I think that Mr. Edison, the inventor of the light bulb, I believe he is he was really resilient. And he stuck to it. And he was able to produce a product after how many trials, I think it was hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of trials that he had. So anyway, that's a bit of a rabbit hole.

Brendan St. Jacques

No, but I but it makes a lot of sense. And I the challenge was starting any business, I feel is so many success stories are thrown in your face, right? Like the only time you're ever going to hear about a big company is when they've made it, you don't hear about a lot of the challenges along the way. And so I think that as long as I'm learning through the journey, or I'm expanding my network, I feel that it's a worthwhile venture. Of course, we want to make money, of course, of course, and I feel that eventually we'll get there. But as long as we're learning along the journey, I think it's worth it. And another way to sort of think about it is, you know, you could spend your three years doing MBA program where you're expanding your business knowledge, or you could just start a business, right, starting a business, you're going to just learn so much more, it's more practical, it's more the information you're learning is more relevant for the time, the people that you're connecting with are vastly the network is vastly larger than what you would have in an MBA program.

Maureen Farmer

And I think that it's important to think about your career or your business from a future point of view. So we're at right now you're manifesting, you're manifesting this business plan and this vision that you have, and it's building out the business you want, five years from now, 10 years from now. So you're building capacity now for opportunities that are going to land later on. And the idea that anyone can be an overnight success is pure fantasy. In my experience, after having been in this business of my own virtual for nearly 12 years, I can say that, and having some made some pretty major changes within that 12 year period. I was talking to my daughter this morning about this. And she just recently landed a new opportunity. Had she not done some of the former work, probably about seven or eight years ago, she would not have access this to this opportunity. So she was building future capacity back then. And I think enjoying the journey and enjoying the process to the degree that you can.

There is a famous author, his name is Dr. Maxwell Maltz. And I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he wrote a book called Psycho Cybernetics. He's passed away. He passed away in the 80s, I believe, but he was a plastic surgeon in the early 1900s. In New York City, he was very poor. And he was told he would never get through medical school and he got through medical school. In fact, he had to sell some of his clothing in order to pay for his medical books. He often was hungry. He but he was so determined to be successful as a plastic surgeon that he made it happen. But not only is he was he a plastic surgeon, he was also a wonderful mentor. I would say a counselor to many people Bong he helped people who felt that they were disfigured, understand that their perceived disfigurement was a matter of perception and a matter of internal esteem, self esteem. And but what he said was when he became very successful as an author, speaker, and obviously, as a plastic surgeon, he said some of his most favorite times in his life, when I was when he was a young surgeon, he he said, from month to month, he wasn't sure where his rent was going to come from, to pay for his his his office and things like that. But he said, those were the most memorable times because he felt he was building something important. And if he hadn't have done that early work as a medical student, and, you know, selling his clothing to pay for his books, and building that capacity, then those later activities, Bill's leader successes would not have arisen, it's certainly not an easy journey, for sure.

But if you have a vision, and you have the fire in your belly, and I really applaud you, too, for making the realization that you were, you know, these other CRMs and customer facing technologies were not the fire in your belly, it was really the hospitality. I think that's a really smart realization, a lot of the times we realize, you know, we're we're just exactly where we need to be, we just need to make a slight change in terms of, of what we're doing, you know?

So what's next for you?

Brendan St. Jacques

I'm absolutely loving working at Sonder. I'm working with so many smart, hardworking people that I'm just totally enjoying the ride right now.

Maureen Farmer

What is one of the things that you're most excited about right now?

Brendan St. Jacques

I really enjoy the business development aspect. I like talking to companies that either I've already known. And I'm able to share the Saunders story. So I have a new story to kind of tell them and chat with them about. And then I also enjoy the fact that because this company is different from what I've worked for before, is that I'm talking to new accounts and new customers that I've never chatted with before. So it's expanding my network a lot. And so that has been very fulfilling. And then of course, there's the high you get when you close a new opportunity that the company has never seen before, or wasn't even on the radar. So I love that aspect as well. And that really has fired me up and has has kept me going. It's an adventure, isn't it? It is you're out there and you're trying to to accomplish a lot, you're trying to make things happen, I find nothing. And sales is easy, you know, everything is is hard, you really have to find the right opportunity for the for the business, something that's going to be profitable and make sense. And you know, that can, that can take a bit of work. But once you do it, it's it feels great.

Maureen Farmer

That builds the playbook for the future too.

Brendan St. Jacques

Exactly. And that's the part that I always remind myself to is once we get these new customers in the door, and they're staying with us at Saunder, it's going to open the door to more opportunities from that customer. They're all connected to each other as well. So the word starts to get out. And I think when I really find the sales success is when I see a customer that I have never spoken to is referred to Saundra referred to me from a customer that I've worked for, and that word starts to get out. I love I love when that happens.

Maureen Farmer

It is so thrilling to have that excuse I've had that experience myself. And you know, there's nothing like it, you know that the marketing is working when people are referring those to you who you've never met before for sure. So thinking about over your career so far, including your business ventures and entrepreneurial journey, what has surprised you most, Brendon?

How much I love business development. bringing in revenue, I just think it's the it's the greatest thing and it's just such a huge important lifeblood of a company. You know, you can have great a great product, great marketing, but you really need someone out there driving the relationships and making things happen and closing the opportunities for the business. And I just, I just love that so much. And I think as part of that. What's really surprised me is how fun work can be. Yes, that it doesn't have to be I mean, we've all had jobs and opportunities throughout our lifetime where it just drags on. And I think I've been surprised at how fun building something can be.

Maureen Farmer

We call that work life harmony at Westgate. So, there's a lot of talk about work life balance, and I don't believe in it. That's my point of view because I think that when you're engaged, when you're engaged with what you're doing, there is no real delineation you Who you are harmonious with your career and your practice whatever it might be. That's not to say that they're not boundaries and things like that that you need to set up. But when it comes to that enjoyment, the at the top of Maslow's hierarchy and the self actualization portion of that pyramid is really where I see the ultimate payoff. So you're in Toronto, Brandon. And we always like to ask our guests, if you could give us the name of one or two or three restaurants that you really enjoy visiting, and it'll end up on a list at the end of the year.

Brendan St. Jacques

So, I really like Terroni. So, if you're if you're a Torontonian, you know, it's a staple, but every time I go there have a great experience and it's Italian spot. So the pasta dishes are always delicious, very fresh, the drinks are fantastic. My favorite location is the Summer Hill location especially in warmer weather when you can sit up on the rooftop patio. But because there's probably people from Toronto that are listening to this and rolling their eyes when I say that name, I'll also give a shout out to Bar Raval. It's a very cool Barcelona style tapas spot, great drinks, small plates of tapas that are fantastic. And it really reminds me of my time in Barcelona. And I'll also add that they were announced as one of the Michelin selections in Toronto now that we have Michelin star restaurants.

Maureen Farmer

Excellent. Maddie is going to be very excited to hear this. Maddie is our Podcast Producer. She's been waiting for this recording to get her hands on it. So that's wonderful. Brendon, look, it's been such a pleasure to have this conversation with you today. And I hope we get to do it again.

And that's a wrap!

Brendan St. Jacques

Awesome. Thank you!