So, tell us a little bit about the legacy dinner.

Denise Logan

So, the legacy dinner is an intimate, facilitated dinner conversation for 12 guests. And what I always say is, do you know those boring dinners that you get invited to by a maybe a financial advisor who says come to the steak house, and have dinner and hear our economist talk? Like no one wants to go to that, you know, you're just going to have a big ol' pitch fest. This is the antithesis of that. This is actually a special dinner for clients, or prospects or your centers of influence. Or you could use it with a board of directors or a new team. So I just want to set that stage. Here's the concept, special private dining. And each person receives an invitation that says, join us for a special facilitated dinner, and come prepared to answer one question, which is, if I could take on the life of any other person living, deceased or imaginary, who would it be? and why? And help those of you who are listening right now feel that little tickle of who would I choose? Who should I be at this dinner, because that's what happens for a guest. When they receive the invitation. Right away. They know, oh, this is not some boring old networking dinner. This is an opportunity to come deeper. So all the guests arrive. And we're going to spend two and a half hours together at the dinner, think drinks and hors d'oeuvres, and dinner and dessert, and the kind of connection and conversation that when you leave, you're no longer at news, sports and weather. You have really dropped into connection with your guests. So each person who comes to the dinner has their person that they want to be. And what I'll say is sometimes we'll hear someone who wants to be Steve Jobs, or Warren Buffett, or maybe they want to be a former president, or maybe an inventor, or maybe a religious figure. And then there are all kinds of other characters who show up in the room, for example, and I've done almost 300 of these dinners.

Maureen Farmer

Now, that's something I did not know. 300 dinners?

Denise Logan

Yeah. And each one is so unique and so special. So at one I did not long ago, someone said, I would like to be Wile E. Coyote. I was like Wile E. Coyote? Say more! Right. And it's all about the why. Why does your person choose what they've chosen and so his reasons were Wile E. Coyote is single focused. He knows exactly what he's after at Roadrunner, and he has never pulled off course. Reason number two, Wile E. Coyote had unlimited resources, because he could go to the Acme store and buy anything we wanted to try to catch that road run. And Reason three, he was immortal. 

Maureen Farmer

He certainly had more than nine lives!

Denise Logan

Yeah. And if you think about it, what do you know right now, just from hearing those things about this person, what do you imagine this person is like Maureen?

Maureen Farmer

Oh, I think this person is a tremendous leader. He or she is resilient. They are tenacious, resourceful. Those are the things that come to mind for me.

Denise Logan

Right. And we've gotten an insight in a way that is vastly different than when we have...call it...boring social talk

Maureen Farmer

Or tell me about yourself...you know, "I am the operating partner of ABC private equity company" or something like that.

Denise Logan

Yeah and the magical about this dinner is we are not going to talk about business. We're not going to talk about what you do. We're not going to talk what we're doing is building connection. And the host of this dinner is doing something special because they also are participating in the dinner. So I often say, you know, we'll do a call them Discovery sessions with clients where you have your list of questions, and you're trying to get answers from someone. People choose to work with other people, because they know, like, and trust them. That's a very familiar statement that we hear a lot.

Maureen Farmer

It's fundamental, I think.

Denise Logan

Yes. And knowing someone is also about stepping into something deeper and richer, you don't actually get to know someone by doing all the same boring things that everyone else in your industry is doing. So you take them golfing, you take them to a sporting event, you have a bazillion 15 minute coffees at the local Starbucks, or whatever the coffee shop is Tim Hortons wherever you meet people that isn't different. We're all looking for the difference maker, how are you different than the other people? And so one of the things that comes from this dinner, and oh, my gosh, there's hundreds of stories that come from it. And a lot of it also is, and by the way, what we've just done is only talk about the opening question. And the opening question is what everyone who's coming to the dinner knows. And then we're going to draw this deeper and deeper into conversation. I'm a little hesitant to share the rest of the questions that I like to go on, because they don't spoil it, you'll be at the dinner, and then your brain will already be there. But I might even just tell you another piece about a different person who was at a different dinner, because I think it puts some context around what happens just at this opening part of this dinner. So someone else at a dinner wanted to be Helen Keller. And I was like, oh, Helen Keller, that isn't necessarily the person who I might choose the same more. And the person who had chosen Helen Keller was herself legally blind. And three people in the room had worked with her over the prior 10 years and did not know that about her.

Maureen Farmer

Unbelievable. How is that possible?

Denise Logan

It happens all the time. Our peers and our co workers or employees and our board members, and our investors, often our connections are so shallow. And so do I need to know this? Right? Yes. Because this is the human part of what builds connection and relationship. And what I'll say is that in any relationship, professional, personal transactional, there is a moment when trust breaks down.

Maureen Farmer

So tell me a little bit more about that.

Denise Logan

Let's talk about that in the context of selling or buying a business. Okay, I'll just use that because that's a familiar shirts for me. So in the process of selling a business, and some of your listeners today might not know a ton about my prior background. So I might talk a little least do a bit of that in please context 100%. So in my early life, I was a mental health professional. And then I was a lawyer. So that has been so fun. And for those of you who haven't heard that...there's more in the first episode I did with Maureen on that...

But what I learned is that when an owner is selling a business, and I know this from my own exit, and from having worked with almost 500 executives in transition, that means the selling of their business, all of the literature shows that less than 1/3 of businesses that go to the market successfully conclude that sale. That is a tragedy.

Maureen Farmer

And that is a shock. I would think that that would be very surprising to many people.

Denise Logan

It's not as if suddenly you decide you're going to sell your business and you plug the for-sale sign in the front yard, like you're selling your house, and companies show up with trucks of cash. And now you're done. The average sale takes somewhere between nine and 18 months. And that's a huge amount of stress for the seller, for their team, for the buyer and for all of the professionals were involved in it. There are dozens of times in the process of that transaction, where there can be a breach of trust, simple things like at the very first moment that we start poking at financials. In the beginning of a sale, we're starting to do due diligence, the owner is likely to be filled with shame and vulnerability. 

Maureen Farmer

So how do you bridge the bridge of trust when that happens...in your role as an advisor to the seller. How do you do that?

Denise Logan

So one of the important pieces, I think, is remembering that this is the single largest transition that is happening in this person's life. It's professionals, I think we often get caught up in the transaction. It is a sale, it's a, it's a process that's being run. But for this person who is selling their business, whether they are the founder or their subsequent leader, this is a huge emotional transition. So let's just even look at this very early moment where we're going to start doing due diligence. And we're going to poke at financials, I like to prepare the owner for that in advance, and to say, you know, when we first start poking at financials, you're likely to feel some shame. Immediately, that person will likely say, I don't have anything to be ashamed of right? I will say no. And shame and having something to be ashamed of, are not the same. We're talking about fear, and how fear shows up. If we think about the kinds of fears that that person might be worried of what things might you imagine, they could be worried about when we first start poking at the financials.

Maureen Farmer

...that they're going to be criticized for some issue? Maybe an audit issue. I mean, who knows?

Denise Logan

Will I look dumb? This person is typically used to knowing all the answers about their business. And suddenly, someone else is going to be looking at things and often looking to find errors and looking for mistakes, that can trigger a huge amount of fear for any of us, right? Imagine someone coming into your house and saying, I want to go through your checkbook...

Maureen Farmer

Or how you're going to be judged. I think that's another one as well...feeling judged. And that is a huge trigger for fear for people, I think.

Denise Logan

Right. Will I not have known something? Did I make a mistake?

Maureen Farmer

Will I look foolish? In front of my team.

Denise Logan

...in front of my team and in front of this professional? Who might seem like a No at all. And even at so one of the things that I do is help the professionals also know, wait, here's what your client might be feeling. So can you both ask the questions in a way that doesn't trigger more fear or recognize that the fear that does show up, is going to show up differently for different people. Some people might show up angry, when they're afraid. Some people might become avoidant, and pull away and not want to give you financials to look at, because their fear is an unsophisticated professional might see someone's anger or fear, as a sign of oh, I should dig harder, rugged, hound dog after a mall, though even there at the very beginning of a transaction, there is a moment when the way we handle it and the way we build trust. And the way we come back to recognizing the humanity of the people who are involved, is going to be a huge difference. So we look at how can we begin at the beginning with care and humanity and respect for the enormous emotional experience that our owner and the teams are going through? Right, they're at the very beginning, is a place where we can start because if we handle that in a ham handed way, right, digging around and carelessly, right and rough housing, that can cause for chin that later when something happens in a transaction where you need the kind of grace and trust, it will have already been broken. So one of the really valuable ways to use the legacy dinner just kind of tying those two things together is as a way for the team, the deal team to build trust so we can have a seller and all of their professionals have a dinner like this. We begin by building a deepening connection. Where Yes, I know you are technically proficient. Do you care about me as the person who you're shepherding through this process. 

Maureen Farmer

And you showcase this very beautifully in your book, The Sellers Journey, and it never occurred to me until I read the book and heard you speak on other podcasts as well about the sellers fears about it. The enormous emotional journey that they're going through because a lot of these individuals are part of a multi generational family business perhaps, or the founder of a business that maybe they've been leading for the past 25 years. And now all of a sudden, these strangers are parading through the office looking for operations, looking for Financials, and you know, looking for, you know, sort of the dust under the rug. And I can see where that would put a seller in a position of fear. And then when they fear shows up, we we talked about this before in the last episode, and I read it in the book is around this this statistic that you quoted that only 1/3 of trend is that 1/3 of transaction, only 1/3 of transactions actually execute. And much of that time, Denise, I think you had mentioned that, the reason that the seller gives for not wanting to go through the transaction is that the valuation is too low, they want a higher valuation, is that correct?

Denise Logan

Right. You know, professionals often only speak to the owner about the money. So the financial advisor, the wealth manager, might talk to them about all the money they're going to harvest, from the sale of the business investment banker might talk to them about the sale price, the attorney might talk to them about the transactional pieces. If all we talk to them about is transaction, and money, every emotional issue that arises will be framed in the context of money. So part of our role as professionals is are we able to create the kind of conditions where an owner can tell us what they are really worried about? So I wrote a column, my thank you probably came out around Halloween just because of the title, which is scary things that go bump in the night. And it's about the things that wake business owners up in the middle of the night, right before the closing, and scare them out of their minds and things like who am I going to hang out with? Right? I don't have any other friends? Or will I look foolish? Did I get all the money I should have? Will someone judge me later? Just dozens and dozens of things. And I won't spoil that article, though, read it on my website.

If all we talk about is money to them, they will tell us the price isn't right. "I need more money". And I know I've told the story. I think perhaps even in our earlier episode about the owner who was eight weeks before closing, and suddenly announced, he needed substantially more money than what the deal was. It was never about the money. It was actually for him about the fact that he and his wife have very different ideas about what their lives should look like. If they don't feel safe having that conversation with someone in the deal team. They will bury it under money. And no matter how you try to solve that problem, if you're not solving for the right problem in any part of your life, if you're not solving for the right problem, you're not going to have the solution. Which is why when I come into a transaction, typically, I'll tell you when I come in and when I should come in, because those are different. Two very different things, I'm sure, right, often I come in because the deal has fallen apart. And someone remembers to remember that lady we met, maybe she can help pull the cookies out of the fire.

Maureen Farmer

Right. 

Denise Logan

And that's not always as helpful. By having me in the process, I create the safe space where the owner can share what's really happening in a non judgmental space. And we can keep things moving forward.

Maureen Farmer

Because really the price the valuation the money becomes a proxy for a whole menu of emotions that they don't feel safe enough to express probably, especially to a spouse or even to a spouse or somebody on the team because they likely have no unless they have you or you know, someone a third party won't have anyone to express those feelings with.

Denise Logan

And sometimes the things that are playing out are really subtle. I was talking with an owner not long ago, and his wife's brother had sold his business several years earlier and had been taken advantage of in the process and did not feel like he got enough money. But I don't know what the brother in law's issue was whether it was really about money or not, for what I do know is that the wife was in the middle. So she was pressuring her husband, subtly and a little bit unconsciously, that when he had his exit, they would need to share some of that money with the brother in law. Some of your listeners are aghast right now they're like, why would you have to give money to the brother in law? Yeah, agreed. But that subtle pressure that was going on at home, was making this man less likely to conclude the sale of his business. Because if he sold, he knew he was going to face that pressure from his wife, right? And who wants to deal with that? Right? Instead, once I was able to discern what was happening, I did some work with his wife, and her brother, and the owner. So we were able to navigate this unspoken emotional obstacle that was there, the transaction actually closed. And it closed because it was about something else. We removed the obstacle that looked like it was about something that wasn't really it.

Maureen Farmer

Right. So much of life is that isn't it? So how, how would a buyer come into? If they didn't have you just being aware of that being aware of how you ask the questions how you ask for information? I think that's a huge advantage.

Denise Logan

Oh, I'm gonna put that into a personal context. Because I think people might be able to relate to this. So many years ago, my husband and I would argue about money. Imagine that, imagine what can imagine that. And it wasn't even really an argument, it was a subtle thing that would happen about are you spending in the way I want you to spend. So some people couldn't relate to this conversation. And he was handling the finances. And I would come home sometimes, and there would be a copy of the Quicken report on the kitchen table. And he would have highlighted a couple of things. And it would say, what is this? Now I will tell you in my head, because remember, this is written but what was in my head? Was his boy saying, What is this?

Maureen Farmer

Right. 

Denise Logan

But the truth is, what he was asking is what category right does this go in?

Maureen Farmer

Right. So it was two completely different things.

Denise Logan

Right. I had a sensitivity because we argued about money, right? So that when he would say what is this, the voice that I heard it in...my projections all over it...And of course, then I would have all this resentment.

Maureen

That triggered a fear of judgment, of being assessed...

Denise Logan

...feeling some shame, should I have spent that money? What does he think so another small example of that, and this is, the reason I'm raising this is we know this experience in our personal life, your listeners are gonna say, oh, yeah, I have a variation like you will have your vanity and we all do, I can be right for if I just come home limit, let's say I'd had my nails done that day, I'd be in the kitchen, doing whatever. And he would say, Oh, I see you got your nails done. In my head. I might think, did he actually see my fingernails are painted? And now No, I had my nails done, or did he see it? On the bank account? Right? The judging statement? Right, right. Just talking about something foolish, right? I mean, marriages don't end over fingernail polish and Quicken reports. They are substitutes for what is unspoken and our own fears around what people think about us.

Maureen

100% Denise, someone in my family just needs to say something to me and in just a slightly different way. And I have, you know, an emotive reaction to that.

Denise Logan

And that's all about the amygdala and the fear center. And we talked about that in our earlier pod. We did definitely covered in the seller's journey. But I think bringing this back into the context of today's conversation, think about when we are doing that very first financial review with an owner. They're bringing their own version of this into the room. And if we don't have the sensitivity as the due diligence professional who is going through books, and going through records and really diving into things, you can cause harm by not understanding a your own tone and your intonation, and even how someone else can hear your question as something that has nothing to do with the question you asked, and their emotional reactivity. Often our I will hear deal professionals say, Oh, they all just get so emotional. I'm like, yeah, it is emotional. So are you as the person who right now is annoyed that their emotion or emotion is in the room to me, we are emotional creatures. It's like can't simply remove the emotion from what's going on in our lives, what we can do is something that I call the content versus the context. So the content is whatever we're talking about, right?

Maureen Farmer

The valuation of the business or whatever.

Denise Logan

Right. So, we're talking about a transactional term, that context is what is going on under the surface for the parties who are having the conversation. And you can tell when someone else feels agitated, or has withdrawn, they've leaned back slightly in their chair, or they're not returning calls, instead of ignoring this context of what is going on under the surface, pause the content, stop talking about the transactional element and say, Something just happened. What happened here? And owner is only going to share what happened, or even another member of the deal team, right, because friction happens between the lawyers and happens between the deal team members, and someone is only going to answer that question, what just happened? Honestly, if you have built relationship, they're not going to do that in a vacuum, they're not going to do that in the context of. So we're involved in a transaction, of course, I'm gonna tell you what I'm thinking and feeling. But it matters. Because when we are able to solve for that, then we are able to return to the transactional element, and it will be addressed smoothly. In many ways I say this is the argument you have repetitively with your spouse about why you didn't put the mustard back on the correct shelf in the refrigerator. Can we all agree it is not about the does not about the muster? It is about the so if you continue to argue about the mustard and why it shouldn't be there, or whatever your version of this is, you don't actually solve the problem. And you keep arguing about the mustard. And then it talks about something else and it spins, stop talking about the mustard, pause and come into the context, which is what just happened.

Maureen Farmer

Right. In my version of that would be why do we have you know, seven different wood stoves in our basement? And we don't have seven, that's a bit of an exaggeration. We have four, why are there four wood stoves in our basement, Patrick?

Denise Logan

We don't need them! He needs and he wants them for something else. Now they serve another purpose. And actually in the argument, you know, the disagreement doesn't have to rise to an argument, the disagreement over the woodstove is I don't understand why that is important to that piece of what is under the surface for him about that. And the same thing is happening in the context of even we can take this to accepting an offer in the negotiation of a new position. Because what you think you're talking about is not always what you're talking about. And creating emotional safety, which comes that's how we build relationships. And when we have that kind of connection. So we were doing a really good job of like weaving all of the parts in I do a lot when I speak on stage about this. I'll give some context when I speak to advisors, often so investment bankers, lawyers, private equity, financial advisors, CPAs. My most requested topic is getting inside the mind of your seller without losing yours. Love it. And it is really about understanding what's going on why do deals fail? What's really happening? And how do we fix that, because of failed deal is horrible for the professionals. And it is a tragedy for the owner. Oh, for sure. An owner who is unsuccessful in selling their business rarely will be able to return to the business and amp up and start running that business again. There's been a huge beginning of a disconnect. So that trickles down not only to them and their family and their community and their employees. So when I speak at advisor conferences, that's often my topic, but I also speak where owners live. So think conferences like the HVAC manufacturers conference.

Maureen Farmer

Right, okay.

Denise Logan

Or the State Dental Association...

What I can tell you is what's going on for an owner in the process of a transition is the same whether we're talking about a $50,000 hair salon or a $500 million manufacturing company. The owners journey the sellers journey through this is an emotional arc. They're at an owners conference. I'm We're likely to speak about how to not flunk retirement, right? Because if you think about externally in the world, we talk about retirement as if it is only a financial decision. And only once you have enough money, then you retire. But work provides a lot more for us than just financial security. And for our business owners, those are a lot of the reasons that they will bail. Or another topic that I will do when I'm talking with owners, as an owners event, are things like how to weave work money and meaning into a greater legacy of your life. Because when we only focus on one part of that, we leave a stunted human being, and they often are unable to successfully conclude that transaction.

Maureen Farmer

And they either they will continue to work themselves into illness or death, right and then, and the family is not happy. And I can't imagine that employees benefit from that type of a legacy either.

Denise Logan

And we will all leave our work and some time, voluntarily or involuntarily, we will all leave our work. And often there is an unspoken mortality issue that is being unaddressed, in an instead person redirects back to the money. I'm sure you and I've talked about this before, but my mental health training is in two special tracks. One is work and financial disorders. So people who are addicted to work and money. And the other is in thanatology, which is end of life, the study of death and dying, and those to weave together perfectly in those moments of leaving something that they have loved. And if we don't address those end of end of relationship issues, they will focus again only on the money as a safety mechanism to stay away from the emotional issues that are there.

Maureen Farmer

So fascinating, fascinating work. Your background to me is so unique. You have the law training, the legal training, and then your law practice, and then the mental health training as well. So fast. It's a very, very unusual pairing.

Denise Logan

You know what, and I'll tell you, because I understand what's happening in the transaction, there's an added bonus there, because I know what is happening transactionally. But being able to be that person, I call it the right brain partner in the right, right someplace where all of that emotion can flow so others can take care of the pieces that they are focused on.

Maureen Farmer

Feel safe and confident through that process. And I'd love to come back to the legacy dinner. And I know we don't want to I don't want to spoil it for myself either, because I think I'll be doing one. So, can we talk a little bit about some of the I don't know, the benefits of during the dinner like what what, what do you see as a result of the legacy dinner?

Denise Logan

So, several things happen. At the beginning, the moment they received the invitation, your guests are already building a little bit of excitement, because this is not like anything else. And they can tell from the fact that they are coming prepared to answer a very unique question. And they also begin, they're talking about it with other people. They're asking the people in their social network. Well, I'm going to this dinner on Thursday night. I have to choose who I'll be Who should I be? Who would you be there already creating some buzz throughout the dinner. The conversation that we're dropping down into our deeper layers of what work money and meaning means for each of the people in the room. I'll just give you a little piece in the middle. That happens and it is slightly different. And I'll say this is so much more than a facilitated dinner. Right? My skill in this comes from being able to see what is not always being said. So an example is I took one with a CEO peer group after a conference on Long Island last year. And it was the founders of companies and their successors. So they're designated next gen were in the room. And this particular company was a screen door manufacturing company Father said his person, the daughter who was in her mid 20s wanted to be Taylor Swift was the person who she had chosen Okay, right now it'd be really easy for us to think oh, she just wants to be a pop star. But her reason for choosing that particular character was Taylor Swift is constantly reinventing herself. Yeah, she is Oh, always changing and growing. And she is not the same artists that she was when she began and that transformation after the dinner was over. One of the things that I shared with the host, who was the CEO, peer coordinator is, did you hear this, this daughter is probably not the right successor. What is the likelihood that she is going to be able to make that kind of transformation again and again, in a screened or manufacturing common rate, right. And so we work together to find a way to help that father and daughter identify what was the right place for her and to free her so that she could have the kind of life experience that would be would matter for her, and her father could find the right successor for the company. That's one small, itty bitty piece.

Maureen Farmer

But that is not itty bitty Denise...that is huge, monumental. I agree, I actually think it's quite vast at is mon you mental. And imagine the avoided disappointment and the avoided costs. And, and, and all of the emotional turmoil that in service to her as well. Because if she wants to keep reinventing herself, that's not going to happen there. And she probably doesn't want to dishonor her relationship with her father, that would be another thing as well. Right? So there is a lot going on here.

Denise Logan

And then we're coming even deeper in the dinner into things like who has impacted your life who may not know it?

Maureen Farmer

That's a powerful question.

Denise Logan

And what has this life that you've built...what are the stories that will live after you. As I said, without spoiling the beauty of it, and it is different in every single dinner, but there is a thread that weaves through it, so that at the end, the guests leave, and they want to tell everyone they know about this dinner. They're like, can you imagine what I just did? For the host...I'll just talk about what happens for the host as well as for the guest. Like Maureen, if I said to you, how many lawyers do you know? A lot? Right? Some people might say too many.

Maureen Farmer

I'd never say that!

Denise Logan

What if instead I asked you, Maureen, I need a lawyer...How many would you give me?

Maureen Farmer

Maybe one or two.

Denise Logan

For the host, the beauty of this dinner is that you have built the kind of relationships with your guests. That elevates you to that number one or two role, because we think we're all unique and special. But the truth is that most professionals are doing the exact same thing every other person in their industry is doing. They're going to networking events and having boring, lame surface level conversations and collecting business cards and doing spammy emails. They are hosting a golf tournament. Boho, like the fact that your name was on a placard and don't not do golf tournaments, but stop thinking that makes you different, or that somehow that's making a relationship or you know, they put their name on the ballpark or they do these things. That is not what connects people to all of those are designed as ways to build brand recognition, in the hopes that you will get someone into the room to have a conversation. This is the conversation. This is the kind of deepening conversation that the next interaction you have with those guests will no longer be news, sports and leather. When we come back to that old saw of know like and trust. Guess what you have to start with? No. Hey, no. W Yes. Otherwise, what you're getting is no. And oh, because you haven't taken the effort to connect the know someone. So think about what would happen if we were using this as part of a deal team. Right? We build that connection, we deepen, or you use this with a new board of directors to build that opportunity to know each other and create trust and the ability to begin building relationship, which is the foundation of all of this.

Maureen Farmer

100%. And I think of you know, private equity companies, for example, who are acquiring new portfolio companies. And they have they may have a founder who has never reported to a board before and now suddenly has this new relationship that they have to navigate. And they maybe have sold their business and are going to remain as the current CEO or the current leader. Or they maybe maybe the private equity fund is just a major investor in maybe they're going to an IPO or whatever that might be and I I think that many times new leaders, transitioning leaders don't always understand that relationship, or understand the importance of the relationship with the new board, or the new investors group. And it's not just with one person, it's not with the chair of the board. It's with everybody. They have to navigate relationships with everyone. And I think this, this approach is is quite intriguing to me. And I can't wait to learn more. And I do want to let the listeners know here today that you have a short video on the legacy dinner.

Denise Logan

I do!

Maureen Farmer

I've seen it a few times. Is there anything else that we need to know about you? Are you speaking now? I want to keep this as evergreen as possible. So not specific dates, but who do you typically speak for? I know, you mentioned before, you've done different professional owners associations, but what other organizations do you like to speak for?

Denise Logan

Yeah, um, so later this year, I will be speaking at a financial services conference in Miami. Just recently, I spoke at an ACG conference, the Association for Corporate growth. And so those are some of my upcoming and most recent events, but often it is where advisors live. So that's a law seminar at a state CPA conference, and in house as well. I do a lot of work in house with advisors to help they and their team understand how they're contributing to the chaos in their deals, so that they can help owners close more transactions.

Maureen Farmer

Terrific. I have two more questions for you. I like to ask this question, because it intrigues me. The answers intrigued me. So what has surprised you most so far in your business and career?

Denise Logan

I think the biggest surprise for me has been when I have opened into a place of vulnerability, people come closer, there is a myth that somehow we have to separate our personal life and our business life. And if there's something wonderful that has come from all of the time, where we've been zooming and at home and semi in each other's homes by video conference, it has allowed more opening to come so that we know each other. This is obviously my jam, I really think that the more we are able to connect with people as humans, and as the people that they are, the more grace we're able to bring into our work. And for me, the more I'm open about my life, and what's happening, the more other people open about theirs, and then we do better together.

Maureen Farmer

That's beautiful. I've never heard an answer like that. That is absolutely lovely. Thank you for sharing that. And I have a last question. We're building a list of restaurants. I would love your top one or two favorite restaurants. It could be in your hometown. I know you do a lot of traveling, it could be in another city. Tell us what they are!

Denise Logan

Let's see here in Phoenix where I live...there's a restaurant called LON's at the Hermosa Inn. And it is a historic property of a long time Western writer. It was his ranch that has been turned into a lovely restaurant. That's somewhere you should totally come when you come to Pheonix.

Maureen Farmer

Denise Logan

And in Dallas, the place where I like to do breakfast meetings...it's The Mansion at Turtle Creek. It is lovely, they have dinner there as well. But I like to have breakfast in the conservatory and I often host gatherings there. I'll invite someone to have breakfast with me and then someone to come at the end of that so they get to interact and meet each other while I excuse myself. I love that level of connecting. 

Maureen Farmer

That sounds like an advanced networking strategy for sure. We'll have to talk about that one next time. Thank you, Denise. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast!