In episode 55 of the Get Hired Up podcast, I speak with reverse logistics and remanufacturing leader and executive, John Lingon, who uncovered the mystery of part of the supply chain that isn't top of mind for most of us in this trillion dollar industry.

John also shares a rags to riches story about a fortune 500 customer who almost walked out the door. I hope you enjoy the show!

It's my pleasure to welcome John Lingon! John is a senior commercial leader with nearly three decades of profitable success for $15 million to $30 billion manufacturing, remanufacturing, forward and reverse logistics, distribution and engineer product companies wanting to grow organically and in organically. John is accountable for full P&L with responsibility up to $150 million budgets and forecasting. John is an acknowledged expert in supply chain solutions and optimization. In fact, John has negotiated multimillion dollar agreements with Fortune 500 customers to the delight of the senior management team and the board. John has collaborated with customers and partners in industrial, aerospace and defense, medical, water, automotive, oil and gas, white goods, consumer products and e-commerce. Most recently, John served as the SVP of commercial development for CoreCentric Solutions, Inc.—a reverse logistics and supply chain solutions company. There, John was recruited to build and lead account management and new business development for the OEM product returns and remanufactured appliance parts divisions. In that role, John remanufactured appliance parts revenue by 28% of the first year while leading a new sales strategy focused on extended warranty, distribution channels and e-commerce channels with Amazon renewed and eBay certified refurbished. Prior to CoreCentric, John spent seven years at Flex, a global supply chain solutions company leading a business development team in the industrial and emerging industries team, where he built a new $750 million vertical in the water market, described by senior management as a hands on player-coach who seeks out challenging opportunities and possesses powerful business development abilities.

He built sustainable and lasting relationships to the c-level while also engaging with manufacturing line members on the shop floor. John holds a Master of Business Administration Degree in entrepreneurship with distinction from DePaul University Kellstadt Business School in Chicago. His undergraduate degree was earned at the University of Michigan where he studied English and communications, earning a Bachelor of Arts degree. A highly competitive leader, John was a member of the University men's varsity tennis team and a letter winner. One of the hallmark experiences that has shaped his life and career is working at the 2006 World Cup in Germany, an opportunity supported by a senior leader in his organization. John joins me today from Chicago. Welcome, John, to the podcast!

John Lingon

Afternoon, Maureen. Thank you for having me!

Maureen Farmer

It's my absolute pleasure. And I would love to start with the end of your bio. Just give us a little bit of sense of what that experience was like and what organization you were working with at the time.

John Lingon

So, early in my career after I graduated from Michigan, I actually worked for a company called Dorna Ad Time. And I lived in Minneapolis and worked for Dorna and ran advertising signage for the Minnesota Timberwolves. It was a really fun job. I wanted to be in the sports industry. Lo and behold, in 2000, early 2006, maybe late 2005, the guy that I worked for, called me up and said, Hey, we just won the contract to supply the signage for the 2006 World Cup in Germany. And he asked if I'd be open to working for him to run the the site in Leipzig, Germany. And he purposely chose that site because he knew it'd be the shortest stint of all the sites in Germany that year, because he knew I was working full time at the time I was working for for TouchSensor. So I approached my boss at the time and told them what the opportunity was and he was incredibly gracious. And let me take basically a month off and Go to Germany and live out this really a dream opportunity to go work at the World Cup. And I mean, you couldn't, you know, outside of maybe Brazil, you couldn't pick a better location to work at the World Cup. Germany is a big soccer country, it was just an incredible experience. And I just kind of threw myself into it and made a lot of memories in the month that I was there.

Maureen Farmer

And and just give us a sense of what you were doing there. You know, day to day, I'm very curious about that.

John Lingon

Day to day, it was really just making sure that the signage that was around the pitch, and just saw that use the official language, many people here in the US, we just call it the field. But over there, obviously, they say the pitch, that the signage, the advertising signage around the pitch was set up properly, if there were any changes to the advertising signage that we made those changes. And it all had to be organized for each game that was being played at that site. Actually, the best game that I got there tonight was the final one between Mexico and Argentina. So that was exciting to watch. And I was able to be down on the on the pitch for for all the games. So I had almost full access to the whole stadium at all times. There was moments were times when the you know, some key executives from say, like Coca Cola, that were touring the different sites, they were at the stadium, I'd have to be present to make sure that the signage was up and running and then set up properly be present and make sure everything was was good for them and the visits and the hosting teams for those visits. So yeah, it was a great no pressure, no no pressure. But you know, I was working with the with the local venue managers, marketing teams, you know, people from FIFA, obviously, the groundskeepers, even from the local venue there in Leipzig. So I really got to interact with a lot of different people and made really actually lifelong friendships. And there's people I still keep in touch with, not only from Germany, but people came from all over the world, obviously, for that event, because it is a very global event. And I tell people all the time, and when they asked me, you know, what sporting event, you know, what would you recommend going to if you had a choice, you know, between the like, the Olympics and the World Cup, and I say, Man, I would go to the World Cup again, hands down...

Maureen Farmer

Not even Wimbledon?

John Lingon

For sure. I mean, being a former tennis player, yeah, Wimbledon, but the World Cup is is a pretty special event.

Maureen Farmer

Yeah, for sure. And is the perspective being down on the pitch different from being up in the stands, I'm sure it must be a very different experience.

John Lingon

It is. You really get a feel for the size of the crowd, and just how loud it is. There's obviously a lot of characters in the crowd too. And I also found that like the night, particularly the night before matches, you know, Leipzig came alive with a lot of revelers, is maybe the best way to put it. All these people are very passionate fans, and I enjoyed partaking in those events as well.

Maureen Farmer

That's fantastic. And imagine having a boss and an organization that would support that experience.

John Lingon

Yes, I definitely had to bring back a few gifts for them. They reminded me all the time. But they were they were also several of them were soccer fans as well. So they were they were definitely watching some of the matches.

Maureen Farmer

Of course, that would be exciting to know that somebody that they know is there for sure. So John, this is a good trends, a good point to transition into your industry. And it's one industry that I was not familiar with, before, I got to know you a few weeks ago, I just lived the experience of returning products to the store, although I try not to do it very often, but sometimes it's unavoidable. And so I would love for you to tell us about your industry and your interest industry niche.

John Lingon

Yeah, you know, I've actually been in in a number of industries, you know, really over the last 20 years, I've been in, you know, electronic manufacturing services, contract manufacturing, product development, you know, transitioned into, you know, reverse logistics product returns remanufacturing. 

Maureen Farmer

If we could stop for a moment and talk about reverse logistics, because I didn't know what that was, as well as remanufacturing, it makes sense now that I know you, but before then I wouldn't have known those words. So, tell us a little bit about those two functions.

John Lingon

Yeah, reverse logistics is really, you know, as we've seen, this, obviously, enormous growth of E commerce people tend to buy, you know, extra of a product or multiple products, you know, because they don't go to a store. You know, we've made it easy for people to buy product online, they don't have to leave their home, you know, more and more products get returned. And, you know, people tend to forget that, you know, where did those products go? Well, there's organizations, you know, like, core centric, that's where those products you know, tend to end up And, you know, you don't want to throw those away. Right? There's there's typically a useful Second Life for those products, whether it's a shirt or shoes or an appliance, consumer good. Could be a phone or a tablet, a computer, you know, just about anything these days can be refurbished. A tractor, a tractor. Exactly. I mean, it's a it's an enormous market. I mean, I think in 2022, alone, the the number that I saw was fast approaching a trillion dollars, I think it was eight 800 or $900 billion. Yeah, it's Wow, it's a big number. And you have to keep in mind that, you know, there's still a significant number of people that go to stores and brick and mortar stores, and they return their, their goods there, and what the numbers, you know, much bigger in the E commerce world. So, you know, reverse logistics and product returns is, it's a big headache for organizations, you know, these these large warehouses that you see popping up everywhere, you know, they're not only filled with new goods, but they're filled with goods that have been returned, a lot of times to I think people probably don't understand that a bulk of what is returned, is perfectly good product, there's no problems with them, you know, they haven't been used, some of them haven't even been opened.

Maureen Farmer

So, they're not re-shelved then?

John Lingon

It depends on, you know, the the policies of, you know, retailers, and I think some of the retailers are getting smarter about how they handle returns. So that whole business is evolving. I think technology and software is, you know, playing a bigger and bigger role, I've seen a lot more software out there that's trying to reduce the number of returns, and divert returns, from coming back to various, you know, warehouses and things and really trying to get them back on the shelves. So they can be resold as new product, because they're, you know, the minute they start, you know, making their way through distribution centers, and back on the trucks, I mean, this begins to increase the carbon footprint, there's a lot of work that's being put into this part of the supply chain.

Maureen Farmer

It just occurred to me when thinking about the carbon footprint, our younger daughter specifically used to do a lot of shopping on Amazon, and you know, we would have a product delivery almost every day, sometimes twice a day, for one tiny little product, you know, a hair barrette or some kind of an implement, or, and I thought, well, you know, you see the truck circling the neighborhood several times a day. And, you know, it makes me wonder, you know, the, the impact on the environment, having these trucks circle around just for one particular tiny product to one particular house in a neighborhood, you know?

John Lingon

Yeah, you make a good point. And I think, you know, as you look at delivery systems, last mile delivery systems, I mean, obviously, there's a bigger and bigger push to electric vehicles, there's obviously a big push for, you know, more and more biodegradable packaging, and that that really kind of evolved into that whole, you know, circular economy and, and how we, you know, use material that is not linear doesn't create a linear economy is it you know, this is material that can then be reused, and continue to be reused over and over and over again, along with with product, it's not just material, but it's obviously product as well, that can be reused, whether it's re manufactured, or it's perfectly good product that can be put back on the shelves, like we just discussed.

Maureen Farmer

It's so fascinating. So when it comes to remanufacturing, and reverse logistics, what would you say, would surprise the public about that? I think you've just alluded to one and the trillion dollar industry, but what else? And why is it important to the economy?

John Lingon

One of the things that I've seen and kind of things that I've been passionate about over the last 20 years, you know, when I talk to customers, and people, particularly like engineers, and product development, folks, is look, if you're going to design a product, try to design this product in a manner that it can be remanufactured. Now it can be repaired. It's not a you know, not a throwaway product. It's not a linear product is maybe a term that's good that you're hearing more and more. It is, you know, a product that can live in the circular world and the circular economy in an includes, you know, the packaging of the product, it includes the plastic or the metal that's in the product, and you know, right down to, you know, the components that are on the circuit board and the wires and you can reduce things that are in the products as well. I mean, I mean, I think you see a lot of companies going away from simple things like the you need instruction, manuals and products these days. Like you see a lot of companies that have eliminated instruction manuals and products and they go everything is online, right? You don't need those anymore.

Maureen Farmer

Well, I don't know if that's true though, because there is a large portion of the population that doesn't have access to internet.

John Lingon

That's true. But I still think you see, it's an evolution. It's not it's not, you're never going to get 100%. But I think you do see in this connected world a reduction in the use of paper manuals, or you see, you know, instead of 100, page manual, you see, you know, a five page manual, so you do see some some level of reduction of paper use. And that paper in itself is recycled paper.

Maureen Farmer

Oh, we are fully in line with a circular economy here. And any packaging that we can reuse here, we use everything. And the one thing that frustrates me is packaging, you know, you get a a bottle of medicine, for example, and the packaging is 10 times the size of the product. You know, yeah, and things like that, that just don't make sense to me, I'm sure that there's a marketing analyst out there that has a has a perspective on, you know, the value the marketing value to that, or the advertising value to that, but I just don't think it makes any sense. And I always scratch my head when I get those products and then have to deal with all of the excess packaging.

John Lingon

Yeah, it's a real challenge. I mean, you said it before and, you know, you get a small breath, and an Amazon package or a pouch. I mean, it's so hard for the volume of packages that a company like Amazon puts out every day, try to match up, you know, the size of that burette with a, you know, a package of similar size. I mean, it's virtually impossible. Yeah. And it would slow. If they tried to do it, it would, you know, they almost like an on demand packaging system that would slow the whole thing down.

Maureen Farmer

Well that is an opportunity for some enterprising person out there to figure that out.

John Lingon

Yeah. Although I'm not sure Amazon would go for that.

Maureen Farmer

So, you talk about product development, which is an area of interest. And also I'm very curious about your role. I know that your background is in communications, business development. So, how would you describe your experience, I guess, in terms of product development, in your bio, it said, you know, kind of, from the boardroom to the shop floor. So, tell us a little bit about that.

John Lingon

Yeah, I'm definitely not an engineer, I always kind of turned myself as an engineer friendly. I've made friends with a lot of engineers in my career. And I hope the ones that are listening to this will back me up on that. But in all seriousness, I think I view the engineering teams that I've worked with in my career, as, you know, significant strategic assets of the organizations that I've been in, and they're so valuable. And a lot of times, they haven't been given the tools to unlock the value that they that they can create. And I enjoy sitting with them and listening to them. And in particular, I like getting them in front of customers. And I always have found that when you put engineers, with engineers from customers, it's kind of like the magic happens.

Maureen Farmer

Oh, that's interesting. So the engineers on your team, with the engineers from the customers team together in collaboration, right? Okay, interesting. So can you give us a specific example of when that's happened?

John Lingon

One that comes to mind, there was a very unique cooling application that required a minimal amount of space, but it had to do a significant amount of cooling for an appliance. And I remember, we spent two days over in Europe, and we had probably 15 People of which there was probably about 10 engineers in the room. And we kind of put our heads together to try to figure out how can we maximize the cooling with the amount of space that we had, and we ended up actually found a partner that could design a piece of technology that allow the machine to hit the performance metrics that it needed to hit, and also fit the space requirements, that package that it needed to hit, as well, because it was a very tight base package that that was required. And we couldn't go beyond it. And it was, it was a very absolute thing. And so it was good. I mean, it was hard work. And, you know, the teams were committed to it. And I was proud of those teams. And both teams. I mean, they, you know, there were definitely moments of frustration. And but you know, out of that came a big victory, and it was very successful product, and then ultimately a product launch. It's great.

Maureen Farmer

So John, I know based on what I've read about you that you're really, really good with customers and kind of swooping in and saving the day, if I may say that. So that's the feedback that I have learned and what I've read. So tell us a little bit about an experience that you've had that maybe It turned out much better than you thought it was going to.

John Lingon

Yeah, there was a customer several years ago, when I was at flex. And I was actually sitting down in, in Dallas at our office down there. And I got a phone call from a colleague, and he asked if I could come up to the northeast, and there was an issue. And he was hoping that I can help, you know, resolve the issue and try to kind of get a deal back on track. And I said, Sure. So I flew up the next day, and walked into the room. And in the room was the chief engineer, the VP of Engineering, and I think it was the head of innovation in the head of supply chain. And then two of my colleagues, and I could tell right away that the chief engineer who I actually knew from his previous company that he was not happy. We did our greetings and chit chatted and I looked at him and I said, Bob, you don't look very happy. And he says, I'm not happy John. And I said, Alright, let me hear what the the issue is. So he explained that, you know, they had recently come back from a visit to a factory over in China, and that they felt like they were ignored. And they didn't see the capabilities and the processes that they needed to see, in order to move ahead with working with Flex.

Maureen Farmer

To build their product in those factories in China?

John Lingon

Correct.

Maureen Farmer

And that's a long way to go to be ignored.

John Lingon

Not only is it a long way to go to be ignored, it's also a significant investment of not only time, but money. So the first thing I did was apologize on behalf of the organization, and began to ask a few questions and try to understand what the root problem was and what they were looking what kind of solution they were looking for. Because at that time, I didn't really have the background that I needed in order to try to at least come up with some sort of solution. And so he walked me through what they were really looking for. And I learned more about the product. And, you know, we spent a couple of hours together in this room. And at the end of the day, I said, Well, look, I think I know what you guys need. And where we have the solution is not in China, it was actually in one of our factories in Hungary. And at that time of the year, I believe it was early August. I said, you know, I'm happy to take you guys to our site in Hungary. And, you know, introduce you to the team there show you the capabilities, I think, you know, you guys will see what you need to see. And you know, you'll you'll be happy with what you see there. And I'll you know, personally take you. They said Okay, great. And I think I had a short slide deck, I was able to show them, you know about the site and everything. And so they were appreciative and we grabbed dinner, and then I flew home. And the next morning and it was a Friday and my phone rang and it was the VP and he said, Can you take me to Hungary next week? And I said, Sure, why not? I said, Can you give me an hour? He said, sure. I'll give you an hour. So in a span of about an hour, I put together the whole trip, the itinerary and keep in mind is early August and Europe which is holiday time and mature enough. I mean, phenomenal teams it flex, you know, no matter where you go, and and I had relationships with these guys, which was key. I mean, I knew I knew the leaders in these in these facilities, because we had the groups that I were in at the time, you know, had a lot of businesses in these facilities. So they were highly supportive of the visit. And yeah, flew out, I believe, on that Sunday and, and landed in Budapest and had everything lined up for the week, customer came in, and we had a great visit and, you know, over the next couple of months ended up closing the deal and moving forward with, you know, making the product and yeah, I mean, look, it's it's, sometimes you just have to eat a little humble pie and, and but it's at the end of the day, it's really it's about relationships, and listening and doing what you say you're going to do.

Maureen Farmer

Right. To build that trust. And so that was a really big deal from what I understand.

John Lingon

It was and it actually I've often said, it kind of goes even beyond just business that, you know, out of these kind of negative situations come very strong relationships even stronger than than before. And you do build that trust and it'll tend to generate even more business in the future. And that's exactly what happened it and ended up building additional business with some sister organizations.

Maureen Farmer

That is fantastic. And it goes back to the relationship building and the building of trust and in your bio talks about being your leadership style being more of a player code, just to kind of round out our conversation today. Tell us a little bit about you know how you like to work with teams.

John Lingon

One of the terms that I often use is...I'm not a micromanager. I hate micromanaging in my career, but often, when I am in a leadership role and a player coach, I do like to get involved, there was a couple of terms that we used in a previous role. It was...you got to have zero call reluctance, and you got to carry a bag. And I always love those terms. If anyone on the team that I was on or any other teams that were part of the broader teams that that I was part of didn't follow those, they were quickly off those teams, I can tell you that, you know, look at if you're not out in front of your customers, somebody else is going to be and it was important to support the people on my team's by being in front of customers and listening, I enjoy listening to customers, I enjoy touring their facilities, learning about their products, learning about their businesses, you know, oftentimes, it's it's just that listening part, that's the most important and obviously asking good questions. And that's for that relationship building is done. And that's where you get a chance. Also, I think that real focus time with people on your team, to build relationships with them as well and coach them in, that's where they learn, yes, it's hard being away from home. Yes, you know, it can be stressful at times, but that's where you grow. And that's where your team grows. And that's where you know, your organization's ultimately grow is when you have people out on the road and, and building the business and bringing in new business and making customers happy. At the same time, though, it was always a joy to bring customers to, you know, the factories that were part of the companies that that I've worked for, always super proud of the teams at the factories, they always did great work and getting ready and preparing for customers visits, I can't think of any time that a factory wasn't prepared for a customer visit. And oftentimes, I would go in, you know, sometimes two and three days ahead of time to prepare, and make sure that, you know, PowerPoint decks were were ready, or excels were ready. You know, there was a lot of prep work that went into, you know, getting ready. And again, that's all part of the learning process for people on, you know, my teams and people at the factory as well. You know how they would learn that that was enjoyable to me. I enjoyed that process. And even if you didn't win something you learned, you know, everybody learns something in the process,

Maureen Farmer

For sure. So this has been a really interesting conversation. And I would like to ask you a question. And the question is this. What has surprised you most in your career so far, John?

John Lingon

Well, I guess I always thought I was going to be in sports. I always fancied myself...I was gonna be a sports agent. Clearly, that didn't happen. No, I think manufacturing has really gotten into my blood, I see this, this world that we live in, we need to take care of it. And I've become more and more passionate, over the last few years about what's going on around us. And taking I mean, you just see how we how we're damaging the world that we live in, and what we need to do to take care of it. And there's some amazing people that are doing amazing things out there that we need to start listening to, and a lot of amazing organizations, some of which I've had the chance to work with. And I think there's so much more than we need to do, we need to educate, we need to invest in some of the technologies so that we don't continue to damage the world that we live in damage to the environment, we do need to be stewards of the environment. You know, I do think about not only my kids, but my grandkids and you know, their kids do. I mean, as I get older, I think about these things. And you know, I want to preserve the beauty of this, this earth. And I've been fortunate to travel and fortunate to see amazing places, and I think my god has, you know, is that place going to be here, you know, when my grandkids are around and their kids, you know, like the Acropolis and an Athens is that going to be around and 50 or 100 years. And I would say right now it's probably won't be

Maureen Farmer

This morning I was listening to a podcast and I don't know if you're familiar with this name Tom Steyer. He was apparently a candidate for the US presidency in 2020. And he said today in this podcast called capital allocators with Ted Saudis. He said that if we don't take care of the natural world, the natural world will take care of us. Thank you. And it's a fascinating if anyone, if you or anyone listening is interested in this particular episode, it is Episode 300, of capital allocators with Ted Seides. And it was just a fascinating conversation. And I really enjoyed listening to him and his his perspective and why he ran for president and what he's doing through his efforts to help the environment. So, you reminded me of that podcast when you said that, and I agree with you 110%, that, you know, we need to do these things in any small way that we can.

John Lingon

I think there are organizations that if people are interested in this, and they're passionate about it, go and visit the REMADE Institute: Nabil Nasr.

Maureen Farmer

You're on that board, right? Or you were involved in that?

John Lingon

I was involved. And I will continue to be involved and support the REMADE Institute, and Nabil Nasr and his team up there in Rochester, New York, they're doing phenomenal work. And this is, you know, these are people made up of academia, you know, government, private industry, you know, and VC and private equity. I mean, these are, there's some brilliant people, I mean, far smarter than, than me, but that need more people to support them. So if you're interested, visit them, visit the Ellen MacArthur Foundation. They're based over, I believe in the UK, you know, you can learn more about the circular economy and, and what's being done in that world. And the Remanufacturing Industries Council.

If you're passionate about these things, support them. And visit these these websites and learn more about these organizations because they are doing great work. And there's a lot more, you know, jobs that are being created in these industries, I mean, reverse logistics, there's jobs being created around software that support product returns, and reverse logistics and how to make things more efficient recycling, and obviously, how to reuse materials, whether it's metals or plastics or textiles. So it's exciting. There's a lot going on people, you just need to get energized about it to support it.

Maureen Farmer

I agree. And let's take a positive perspective on this with hope and planning that that we will be able to reverse the the impact that we've had on the environment. And to that end, I would like to end with a fun exercise. Madison, who is the Podcast Producer for get hired up and I are collecting restaurants for a list that we release every year toward the end of December. So I'd love to find out from you, John, if you have a restaurant that you would like to add to that list.

John Lingon

I've been to some really great restaurants all over the world. But the one that really stands out is Gary Danko is in San Francisco. And I was fortunate...I have a very close friend who got my wife and I in there for our anniversary. And it was an amazing meal, very special. If I have the chance to go back again, I would definitely do it. Very special place.

Maureen Farmer

Awesome. We'll make sure it gets on the list. And we'll make sure that the other resources you mentioned get into the show notes. And my very last question is how can people get in touch with you?

John Lingon

Probably the best way is just email me at johnlingon@comcast.net. 

Maureen Farmer

Awesome. That's terrific. Well, John, thank you so much for joining me here today for the Get Hired Up podcast and I hope to do it again.

John Lingon

Great. Thanks so much, Maureen!

Maureen Farmer

My pleasure.