Yeah, and I love the values alignment among these organizations. And I have a question relating to the practicality of becoming a B Corp. So can a currently incorporated organization reorganize as a B Corp or or does it have to start from the beginning?

Jonathan Bennett

Oh most do, do reorganize. Yeah, so you know, anybody listening I encourage you to go to the tB Corp Page. And it'll come up, they have a lot of really helpful information to help you through all the steps. And there's sort of a, you know, kind of questionnaire that begins. And to help you understand how to go through the process, and how far away from the starting point you might be. So, it's almost like a benchmarking kind of tool. It really is rigorous. And it does take most organizations, I'm gonna, say, approaching a year, maybe more, and sometimes significantly more. And it depends on the sector and industry that you're in. Things like your environmental footprint, the way you're corporately structured, they all could need to be rethought, redone, there tends to be a lot of policy...new policy writing, and restructuring that needs to happen when you become a B Corp. So it can feel quite daunting. But the reason the bar is high, I think is for good reason. And as you get further and further into it, you learn more and more about how you can improve yourself as a company. And I mean, the benefits. The benefits are many, obviously, to be a better environmental steward, to be a better social steward, to embed social justice and other pieces of really important things deeply into the framework of how you operate as a corporation is really important. But you know, I would say also things like recruitment and retention of staff, never more has there been a larger microscope on the way companies operate and your staff are watching and to decide to become a B Corp creates an awful lot of rigour, external third party validation that you really do and are and say the things that you believe in. And so it's a wonderful recruitment and retention tool as well.

Maureen Farmer

Well, that's fascinating, because I am very interested in employee and executive engagement, they are predictors of success, in my opinion, and based on my research, so I hadn't thought about it from that point of view, when I had heard about B Corp. I'd done some reading and heard some podcasts on it, but wasn't entirely sure of the process and how long it takes. It almost takes as long as a company deciding to do an IPO isn't it? Really, it takes quite a long time to go through that entire process.

Jonathan Bennett

Yeah, it really is quite rigorous. And it doesn't matter the size of company, there are B Corps that you know, only have one or two employees. And there are, you know, global multinational corporations, you know, famously like Patagonia, for example, that are B Corps. So it really doesn't matter the size that you are, there's different, you know, stratifications of rigour that happen around the different things like supply chains and other things, you know, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter the size you are, it matters, your willingness and ability to deeply embed the kind of philosophical approach to seeing business as a force for good. And that's really what sits underneath being  a B Corp is that you believe that companies don't need to anchor themselves in some sort of, you know, thing that extracts and takes away value from the earth and from community and society. In fact, the opposite can be true, that the business can be a strong force for good, can make positive contributions to this world and to the communities, into the lives of your customers, your staff, of everybody that cares about your success.

Maureen Farmer

And the connection to values and mission is certainly one that speaks very loudly to me, because I believe that organizations who attract employees that are aligned with their values, and their mission, are going to produce really, really good work. Everyone's going to be happy. And I know that does sound a little bit Pollyanna, but in my experience, that has to be the way it is in order to be a successful organization. And there are organizations out there, I don't know if they're B Corps, but some of them that have really high employee engagement rates generally are more profitable and do more service in the community than others that don't.

Jonathan Bennett

Oh, yeah. I mean, I completely agree with that Maureen. There's, I think there's a direct correlation. I think the research bears that out, you know, highly engaged workforces, you know, are more profitable, but, they're also better when it comes to something more like a triple bottom line. They're just healthier, more human places to be attached to, and when it comes to values, over the years, I've done a lot of strategic planning, like I've probably led more than 50 strategic plans. And at some point, I realized that if you show me your values as an organization, I can actually see your strategy...

Maureen Farmer

...Ooo that is interesting. Tell me more. 

Jonathan Bennett

So, I think that in a way, where you're headed, where you think you need to be in the next three years, in the next five years, the kind of strategy at a, you know, high level or even operationally, that you're going to put in place, I think we can probably all figure those things out plus or minus. But what really tells me the kind of place you are is your values. And organizations that spend good time doing deep work, that allows lots of engagement and input into the crafting and shaping of values, organizations that embed the values that they espouse, not just on a poster in the lobby, but they embedded in human resources processes, they constantly refer to them, you know, that they're top of mind, employees can recite them back to you that the definitions of the 3,4,5 words that they typically kind of, you know, hang these values on, are well known. And are actively lived by everybody inside an organization. When I see that in place, in a way, the strategy will fall out of that. And so I have increasingly looked more and more to values as the thing that needs to be the absolute strongest in organizations, because, you know, without that, you know, a strategic plan won't be successful, it won't be as successful if it's not got some foundational values around which everybody has collectively decided that they believe in and that they're all in on.

Maureen Farmer

A few months ago, I interviewed the CEO of an organization, it was the CEO of the WD-40 company. They're headquartered in San Diego. And I've known (his name is Garry Ridge), and I followed him for a number of years. And we had a conversation about values and supply chain employees, customers. And in his organization, they use their values, the written ones that are on the wall, they use them as a decision making tool in the organization. So when an employee needs to make a decision, they're not sure which decision to make, they can go through the values statements, and use that to filter their decision.

Jonathan Bennett

Yeah, I love that. Probably like you, I've also been in rooms where employees will use written value statements as a weapon against their employer. So, I'll be hosting a focus group, let's say, of employees when we're doing strategic planning. And one of them will say, you know, last year X, Y and Z happened, and then look, and they point to the wall and the value sitting there. And value number two says the complete opposite of that.

Maureen Farmer

Well, likely they're missing some context there. I'm sure. I know, this organization, they live them in every meeting that they have decisions that they need to make.

Jonathan Bennett

Yeah, sorry, I might not have made my point as clearly as I could have. I think what he's doing is fantastic. And that's how it needs to look like and and if you don't do that, but you know, if it's performative...value statements that are just performative and you say one thing that you manage in another way, that's when employees will use it as a weapon against you, and it just becomes a kind of articulation of everything they want, but don't see. And so there's a lot of value, a lot of energy around values and creating value statements. I think companies and organizations that do it well, I think outperform those that don't.

Maureen Farmer

We had an opportunity here at Westgate to partner with an industry icon, I guess you could say, a number of months ago, and Westgate would be considered considerably smaller in size and so forth. And we made the decision not to go forward with the partnership as a result of a one of our values. And it was a really, really difficult decision to make, because on paper, and on the face of it, you know, an outsider might say, Maureen, you know, are you sure that this is the right decision to make? And since we've made that decision, I've been even more convinced it was the right decision to make. And I have to say that that is our filter. And in that, the values, those statements become a support for the infrastructure for decision making, product development, whatever it might be. And so what you're saying Jonathan, to me resonates very, very deeply.

I know you and I both do work with CEOs and boards of directors, why don't you tell us a little bit about the work you're doing now? Relating to CEO coaching, I know you're doing a lot of that. And then I'd like to delve into the work that you're doing as an independent board director, if that's okay.

Jonathan Bennett

Yeah, totally, that sounds great. I mean, I founded a company and scaled it over the course of almost 10 years. And I learned some things along the way. And the story was, I hit a point in my leadership journey, where I realized I was getting close to the end, and I just didn't want to be one of those CEOs that didn't know when to get off the stage, you know, while the crowd is still clapping. And so, you know, went through a really kind of formal succession planning process. And I was able to kind of make that transition, which, you know, I felt really good about, but I also hit that point where I was pretty drained, and not...I just didn't think I was at my best anymore. And making the transition allowed me to sort of really step back and think about what do I now want to do? What do I think I'm good at? Where can I add some really good value? And the one thing about the work that I was doing was coaching, and I really just love doing it. And I thought, Well, I'm gonna go all in on that, because I think I can bundle up all of the different things that I've done over my, you know, long and strange and winding career that I've had. And that I might be able to really, you know, add a lot of value for other people at different points, you know, I think, obviously, leadership is really exciting, it's really rewarding, but it can also be so stressful and actually lonely...

Maureen Farmer

Lonely! I was just going to say lonely.

Jonathan Bennett

It really can be lonely, there's only so much you can, you know, burden your spouse with!

Maureen Farmer

Ha ha, and sometimes they just don't want to hear it. 

Jonathan Bennett

They don't want to hear it, you know, and that's understandable. And the folks around you, whether it's your senior team, or anybody else, that's just close by, there are some things you can't tell them. And similarly with the board, you know, if you want the board to be at a governance level, there's some operational things that is just, you know, not right for that channel either. So, you know, at the end of the day, you can just really be quite alone. And so, I think coaching can be a kind of safe harbor, and you've got a confidential space where you can, as a CEO or a founder, be able to regroup and be able to think it all through. And, you know, yes, the biggest opportunities, but also the really overwhelming challenges that you face. And if you can do it with someone who's been there before, then over time, your capacity to lead grows. And yeah, you can have problems that get solved, maybe, you know, a good coach can help you shift perspective, see things differently, improve your creativity. And the benefits of all of that is that you can feel more in control, and less alone, and, you know, hopefully be able to enjoy the success while you're actually still doing it and not wait until you know, you fall over the line at the end and then you sort of look back and enjoy the success. Hopefully you can enjoy it while you're doing it. And and I think that's the power of coaching and what I've enjoyed most in being a coach.

Maureen Farmer

Yeah, I agree with everything you say. And I love the focus on gaining control, because a lot of times, you know, in that role, it's lonely. Sometimes you don't really know who to trust either. I know that sounds cynical, I don't mean it to be, I'm a fairly optimistic person. But yeah, sometimes I had this experience myself, as I've sought coaching for myself, but also as coaching with a CEO or other person. And it takes a little bit of time to build up the rapport and the trust so that they feel safe enough to explore and to share information that they may have not ever shared with anyone else before even though it's within a business context. We still carry our personal feelings and values with us. So, someone said recently, you know, you don't leave your nerve endings at the door when you walk through the office door, and being able to help people normalize the fears to understand, hey, guess what, you're not alone? And a lot of CEOs I've worked with in the past have worked in the same organization for maybe 25-30 years. It's less common now, but in the past, you know, for a very long time. And so because they've been on that journey, especially as a CEO for such a long time, they really do worry that the challenges that they're facing are are unique to them, when in fact they're not, they're actually unique to most leaders in organizations, and the ability to share that burden with someone else in an action oriented way, can be very liberating for people.

Jonathan Bennett

Oh, yeah, I completely agree. And, you know, maybe the other thing, just to sort of expand on that point is that the world's changing, and so, you know, we have mostly kind of Gen X's now, finally as CEOs, as VPS, and C suite leaders, a global pandemic, a shift to a kind of virtual environment, leading remote teams, they worked hard, and waited a long time for an opportunity to get into those roles, you know, many boomers waited a long time to retire. And the last of them are still kind of doing it. And, and so they felt like they have earned what it was that was in front of them, which is, you know, an office based environment and a whole bunch of things like that, well, that's all completely changed. And many of them are at sea at the moment. And I completely empathize with it, the shifts that have happened, are really, really big. And, you know, I've been a student of the millennial workforce, for the last sort of 10 years of my career, and they have taught me an enormous amount. And I feel like I've been better prepared than many to understand how the shifts are reflecting. And, you know, a lot of the coaching I do, a lot of the writing I do on LinkedIn, and blogging is really around how to incorporate the changes into the kind of leader that you should be, but that you didn't really have much of a role model for. That's, you know, what I think is sitting under a lot of the workplace churn that we're seeing is that so many mid-career leaders are looking above them, and they're not seeing what they want. They're not seeing the kind of empathy based, vulnerability based leaders that you know...for example, Brene brown, Simon Sinek are talking about, they're just not seeing it in their own biases. And so they're not willing to wait anymore. They're leaving, they're starting their own things. They're shopping for jobs, and this churn is having a big impact on businesses. And, you know, current leaders are really struggling with, you know, how do I pivot? How do I get better at this?

Maureen Farmer

Mhmm, that's really interesting, I think of the B Corp as being, you know, a bit of a North Star for a lot of people who are looking for mission based leadership in products and services with a social cause.

Jonathan Bennett

I really do as well. I mean, once you get into the B Corp thing, you start to actively seek it out, like, just silly things like Christmas shopping or something, you know, I sort of go to the B Corp website and start to look at other companies that I want to purchase from...places that I know are B Corps because I trust them.

Maureen Farmer

Right, right. Trust is a big deal for sure. And so what would you say, in terms of the millennial workforce would be traditionally, the biggest difference between...just for the sake of this conversation and an example, a millennial leadership team versus a baby boomer leadership team? What do you see are the maybe one or two biggest differences in how they lead?

Jonathan Bennett

Yeah, well, I think leaders that have, you know, maybe that are Gen X, or above, they're not digital, we are not digital natives, you know, the Internet was either just starting or wasn't there when we began at work. And so everything we've learned, we've learned along the way, and everybody that's, you know, kind of coming up behind us, has grown up in a social media kind of drenched world, and so they understand it in a way that has always been there. And I think that gap is a pretty big one at times. And so there are many leaders that have done a lot of work to get themselves to a good place. And I think it's work that never ends. I think if it just wasn't your worldview, if you were shaped and the kind of mentors and the kinds of things that you were taught early on, and the people you looked up to, you know, their world wasn't shaped by the internet. And so you still carry those stories with you. And it's hard to break those habits in those frames, when the people that are coming up behind you want leadership to look different, like I was told by a very early boss, never apologize, never apologize. Like that is the opposite advice you would be given today. And yet, at the time, it seemed powerful, like we are right, we are in control. And, you know, we are the authority (it was a publishing house). And so, I carried that with me, and I realized pretty early on, that was terrible advice. But I didn't know it really early in my career. And so there's lots and lots of those stories that we've told ourselves are true because we looked up to and we admired, and we were inspired by people earlier in our careers that have all retired. And, it's just not true anymore. And so we have to let those go. And we have to reframe the stories that we need. And somehow we have to be able to listen well to millennial leaders, because they're good teachers. They really are good teachers, they just need and want different things at work.

Maureen Farmer

So, you mentioned one of the key differences between the baby boomer generation leaders and those behind is the rise of the Internet and this technology, how does that manifest differently in each of those different generations?

Jonathan Bennett

I think that they, they being millennials, I'm a Gen X, like right in the middle. And Millennials want vulnerability, they want authenticity in leadership. And I'm speaking horribly, generally here, so forgive me, but they want a lot of feedback at work. And they expect it, they want career paths, they want to know where it's going, they want a lot of check ins, like not once a year, once every couple weeks, they want a lot of feedback on how they did even when they're doing things that they've done lots of times before. And we're programmed, I think we being, you know, an older kind of generation of leaders to say, you know, what's wrong, like, you've got it already, like, you know, an 'attaboy' once a year should be fine. And that couldn't be further from the truth. It's not what motivates them. And it's not what they need. It's not what they want. And it's not how they're leading themselves, because many are now in leadership positions themselves, of course, and they're building teams that do the kinds of check ins, the kind of loop backs, the kind of feedback loops that that are just, you know...oversaturated is how it looks to somebody like me, but it works. And it's what they're looking for. And so you know, those older leaders who figured that out, have the advantage. Who do career pathing, deep conversations with where you're going, how are we going to get you there? How do we invest in you? They are fiercely loyal, millennial workers are fiercely loyal, but you need to show up for them in a way that is a bit foreign to how you know, to what you or I needed. But if you can do that, you win. Because there are so many leaders that haven't figured this out yet.

Maureen Farmer

I don't think you can ever offer too much communication in a team in any type of relationship. I think the communication is absolutely key. And that's what I'm hearing you say now, it's really interesting. I was speaking with someone this morning, who helps business owners after they've sold their company, and some of them are multi generational owners. And so, you know, this business has been in a family for 5,6,7 generations. Anyway, we were talking about the complexities of succession planning and things like that. And she has such a unique perspective on her career. So, she was a CEO, the company was sold to a big fortune 100 company. Now she's an advisor. She's also an independent director. And she coined this phrase that I absolutely love, and which I'm going to use, and that's the 'portfolio career'. And when I think about it, that absolutely fascinates me because I get bored easy, I need to move on to things. You know, I need to have multiple things on the go at one time and you never always get what you need absolutely from one particular job or one particular relationship. So, the portfolio approach to career management especially for you know, the younger generations might be a great way to develop a leadership path that's going to give you so many things in the course of your career versus sort of the the linear kind of you know, from individual contributor to leader to executive to board Director, that type of thing. And so I thought that was absolutely fascinating. And I know that you yourself, you're a chartered director with Institute of corporate directors here in Canada. I'd love to know a little bit about your journey into the boardroom, and maybe a little bit about what you're doing currently, as an independent director for an organization, I believe it's somewhere in Western Canada?

Jonathan Bennett 

Thanks for your question. I'm just a governance nerd. I have always been around boards from early on in my career, you know, when I would like, take minutes, and I just soaked up the complexity of the board space. And so I think, I think because of that, I've always been fascinated, I got onto nonprofit boards quite early. And I've always thought it was such a gift. And so, you know, I always, whenever I'm doing coaching work, and folks are asking me about, you know, what should I do to improve my leadership, you know, I'm a middle manager, let's say, or, you know, I just say "get on a board", get on a nonprofit board. There's nothing like seeing the world, from the seat on a board, everything looks different. And it's the fastest way to real time, leadership decision making, and, you know, collaborative work that you can get. So I'm, you know, I'm a big fan of board work. I started on a national nonprofit board. And I was so junior and I learned from some really senior people. And that was just an incredible opportunity. And I've been on boards ever since. And, you know, most recently, I was the chair of OTN, a board in Ontario, it's the delivery mechanism for digital health care and virtual care. And, and it's now been kind of rolled back into the government. So, it was an amazing opportunity. For me, to be the chair of that board was a real honor. And I just recently joined a privately held company that's based in Alberta. It's a social purpose company. So it really matches with my, the court background and my work across social services and health care. And, so yeah, I'm really, you know, I'm just getting my feet wet there. I've just been on the board for a couple months. So, I'm still learning everything. It's always...the first year on any board is just a firehose of information and learning. But, I'm really looking forward to this next chapter as well.

Maureen Farmer

That's excellent. And I know a lot of people listening to this podcast are very interested in serving on a board. And so can you just sort of walk us through your journey to get onto this board? Because it's one thing to say "get onto a board", which is great. It's, you know, some people struggle with the how do you do that? So with reference to your current role, can you walk us through that journey?

Jonathan Bennett

Yeah, it is hard. It is really, really hard. I had a mindset shift about a year ago. And I think I realized that I was going about it in a way...all wrong. I think the right mindset to have when you're looking for a board is a sales orientated mindset. So, what problem are they trying to solve? This is a board of directors that has a skills matrix. And they have a whole bunch of folks on their boards who can do a whole bunch of things, but they are smart people. And they've realized that they have some blind spots, they have a new strategy coming, they are in need of new and different skill sets. Or maybe somebody is retiring, and they need to fill, you know, a set of competencies that they've had on board for quite a while. And so in your approach to a company or an organization, it's not about you, it's about them. So, when you look at your skills and abilities and background and competencies, most of us just end up talking about ourselves on the cover letter, on your board, CV. You know, hopefully you have some governance training, hopefully you have some governance experience, whether it's nonprofit, or exposure to a board through your corporate work, you know, you can highlight all of that, you can bring all that out, but that's not enough. What's going to take you over the top is to speak to whatever problem they're trying to solve, and package yourself as the solution to that problem.

Maureen Farmer

I love that. That's the advice I give my clients 100% of the time is that the organization needs to understand your value proposition which is what is it that you're going to do to make money, save money or solve a problem for the organization. Of course at the board level, it's more around compliance and solving complicated problems, and when people look at it from that point of view, it takes the pressure off you, doesn't it? Because now you're focusing on their issue, and then evaluating, does my value proposition fit their problem? And is there an apples to apples solution? So, you know, if you have a million dollar solution to a $500,000 problem, as an example, there's no real fit. And the opposite is true as well. So, evaluating does my solution fit their problem? And I think when you start there, you can end up saving a lot of time and avoid wasting a lot of time when you discern that in advance, and then position yourself as that solution to what the problem they have is. So, I would think that you would have done a lot of research to understand what their particular problems are, because of course, not everything is going to be publicly disclosed, either.

Jonathan Bennett

Yeah, I did a lot of research. Yes. And, I would say, if you're not prepared, or you don't have the time, or the interest, or the inclination to do that much research, then don't bother, because somebody will, these are very competitive, competitive spaces. And, you know, if you go through a process, a research based process, let's say, to try and learn everything you can about a company and what their problems might be, and what they're trying to solve by appointing this next director, you know, if you identify like, it's going to be too competitive, or you can see why there's too many reasons why you might not be the right fit, then I mean, you can save yourself the time and just not apply. And so, I think there's such value in in doing it. Not everything is publicly disclosed. But it's amazing how much stuff is out there. You can read so much of their social media feeds, you can read gloss door, you can go and just Google the living daylights out of the company. There is always tons of stuff that's out there, you know, customer reviews are excellent.

Maureen Farmer

Oh, yes, customer reviews, and reference librarians can help as well. So, your public library has this wonderful resource known as the reference librarian, and they are such wonderful gurus, they can help you find information that you wouldn't be able to ever find on Google. And while Google is everyone's Operations Manager, if you're working on your own, it is not going to find every piece of information. And it's that quality piece of research, I think, that really helps people stand out when they're researching board opportunities.

Jonathan Bennett

Oh, that's a great piece of advice. Yeah. So I mean, doing all of that. And then getting strategic, asking yourself, okay, so what's really going on here? Where is their business headed? What gaps are they going to be trying to fill? What's in between the lines of this job ad for this director position? What are they really asking for here, and how is what I'm researching and what I'm seeing and reading about illuminating what those things are. And then it's about writing, you know, I think about doing the practical positioning of what you would imagine the problem today, or you know, the biggest opportunities and challenges that are before them, and how your experience directly sets you up to be a great solution for that. It's about them. You're talking about them. And you're positioning yourself well, and I think a lot of executives think, I've been there, like you're busy, and you see a board opportunity, think God I would be great for that, fire off a resume. And you just haven't put in the right level of work that's needed.

Maureen Farmer

Oh, I agree. And I love your focus on customer reviews. Because, you know, the customers write the paycheck for everyone from the board level right down to the individual contributor in the organization and focusing on the customer. It's interesting, the number of executives when I've done recruiting and have interviewed people for senior level positions, how very few of them focus on the customer, it's quite surprising and really, that's where it begins and ends...with the customer or the constituent or whoever it is, that is is the end consumer of your product or service. And so I really like your your focus on on customer reviews, I think it speaks volumes, as a B Corp...speaks volumes to the leadership of an organization. The customer experience can speak volumes to you know, the quality and the the focus of the organization. So, that's excellent. And you have been this organization for a couple of months now, so I would imagine you're going through or have gone through an onboarding process. What does the next year look like for you on this board?

Jonathan Bennett

It was a great onboarding process actually. I was really, really grateful to my new colleagues and they really showed me the ropes. I was given an awful lot to read, you know, felt like the 1000 page deck that came my way. But that is what it's like at the outset, you have to learn, you know, you have to learn the history, the context, in my case, this is actually a new sector, something that I've never worked directly in before. So there was some terminology, there's regulations, you know, there's a lot of new things, but already, I'm beginning to see avenues and openings for where I can contribute in a way that I don't think there's as much experience around the board table and around the executive team, in some of the particular areas that I've got experience in. So you sort of look for those little pieces where you can start to add value and start to grow, you know, the way that you can contribute along the way. So, I think the next year is gonna be a lot of me really understanding this. And, you know, as every director knows, your number one job is to ask great questions. If you're taking your fiduciary responsibilities seriously, you're really looking to, you know, ask us the hard, big questions. And sometimes the new person can can ask the best, biggest, most obvious ones that have been missed. So, it's a precious opportunity, when you're new in any role, whether it's at the board table, or an executive team, because you are seeing with fresh eyes, and they'll only be, you know, fresh for so long. In governance we have this term, you know, you become captured, the longer you're around, the more of the decisions that get made you are a part of. And so naturally, as humans, we're more likely to defend decisions that we were a part of being made. And so you become less and less able to ask the increasingly harder questions because, you know, you're a part of the past. So it really is an important time. It's not to say that becoming experienced isn't important, obviously, it is also really critical. But, finding a balance, you know, which I think is why things like term limits, and those sorts of things are so important that you've got a nice mix and balance of new fresh eyes and, you know, wise counsel, that's been around the board for a long time.

Maureen Farmer

And that's why there's been so much focus on governance, strategy and governance, education, you know, and a lot of these organizations, and I think it's really taking on a momentum now in a positive way, not solely like term limits, but having this robust infrastructure and feedback process and things like that, and mechanisms to manage conflict, and things like that, I think are really, really important. So, this is wonderful. Well, Jonathan, it's been an absolute pleasure having this conversation today. And before we sign off, I would love for you to tell the listeners here today, how they can reach you.

Jonathan Bennett

Oh, for sure. Yep. Well, I'm at ClearlyThen.com. And you can also find me on LinkedIn, Jonathan Bennett, you can look me up there as well. Always published, lots of writing and blogs and love working with new executives that are looking to push themselves or that feel that their careers are at a bit of a crossroads. And they'd like the support. So I usually talk to folks for an hour or 90 minutes, just so we can find out if there's a fit. And that's obviously complimentary. And please, please reach out if you'd like to connect and chat.

Maureen Farmer

Wonderful. And they can also find you on LinkedIn, which is where I think I found you. And I'm really looking forward to learning more about your board journey. And perhaps we'll come back on the podcast another time when we can discuss some of these really important board related issues in further detail.

Jonathan Bennett

That would be wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation.

Maureen Farmer

It's been my pleasure, thank you Jonathan.