That's fantastic. And I just want to be clear as well, you referred to this small retailer across Canada, that was not a small job, just to give some context, I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that last stint, because it was not a small operation. You had a lot going on there.

Mystery Guest

The last five years of my career within this large retailer—I was running their national franchise program and there's a few different types of businesses. I was running the one that focuses on smaller retailers. In and of itself, it would be quite a large business in the range of half a billion dollars a year in sales. So it certainly, you know, I had responsibility for everything, essentially. Sales, operations, merchandising, connectivity with supply chain, business development, franchise liaison, the whole gamut. So it was a great experience. And working with those folks who are really entrepreneurs, cause they're somewhat on their own is an eye opener as well. So it was a great experience.

Maureen Farmer

Yeah, that's fantastic. So, Andrew, you know, given that you have this breadth of experience in multiple sectors, private, publicly traded, what would you say surprised you most in your career so far?

Mystery Guest

Well, from a corporate perspective, I realized even back further from the point of view of government, everybody's different. I think part of this was finding out what worked for me as a person. And I realized, I wasn't aligned with some of the internal workings of a provincial government entity. It just sometimes didn't jive with me as a taxpayer. So I found something in the retail sector that was much more kin to what I sort of believed in. What sort of surprised me, I guess, you know, I don't know if "surprised" or what I just sort of experienced that in hindsight is cool or different is just watching the evolution of this large corporate entity coming from a place where it was a regional business, like the national footprint, but certainly regional leadership and over the course of 20 years, watching it morph from a business that had significant, for example, executive presence in the regions to, by the time I was leaving had almost well had very little, uh, executive presence. And so watching that unfold and watching the impacts on the customer and, and also just, you know, experiencing the, the corporate restructures that happened every year or two or whatever, you know, it just sorta makes you realize, you know, what it takes to be successful in a large business because the law of large numbers says you have to keep generating return. And so there's always that desire to reduce costs and do things better, cheaper. So that was certainly one surprise. The other one that I guess I just didn't have an appreciation for is in a large business once you get in and once you establish yourself and establish your credibility, there's a lot of potential for movement. And I really didn't know that when I got in, because as I relayed there earlier, I mean, I went through multiple careers almost, inside one company, but it was all really based on the fact that I think I'd established myself. I had good relationships with many people. I know people trusted me. And so I just didn't appreciate that I could have a couple of different careers inside one when I started.

Maureen Farmer

Right. So you bring up a really important point and that's one of visibility and career management—is vital in a large organization. So I guess, you know, I think a lot of people will often look at their career and look at their current role and think, you know, uh, I think maybe it's better elsewhere or I could do better elsewhere, or I could do something different elsewhere, uh, without really thinking about the possibilities inside an organization. So how would you advise someone listening today to raise your visibility inside a large organization so that you can recreate your own position inside that organization?

Mystery Guest

Well, I'm gonna answer it a little bit differently in the sense of, I wish I knew then what I know now, because, you know, I was lucky enough to get promoted into a number of different roles. And I think as you know, I demonstrated skill and good relationships, as I mentioned, things like that, but it was always on the terms of the business. In other words, the business had this opportunity and they selected me. It wasn't part of my having a bigger plan. And in hindsight, you know, I wouldn't do that. So I'd love to talk about that maybe a little bit more down the road, but specifically to your question on, on managing your career—I mean, in my experience, again, there's all kinds of opportunity, but if you are not actively managing your brand, and again, I wouldn't have used this term maybe five years ago, but I certainly embrace it now, if you're not having some visibility and not just doing good work, but being seen as doing good work and trying to get out there a little bit more, you run the risk of being passed over for know promotions or opportunities. Not because you're not capable, but just because people just don't know you as well as they maybe know somebody else. 

Maureen Farmer

There's that whole kind of magic of the "how". So we know lots of great people who are capable, sometimes they are overlooked for opportunities. So what did you do that was different from somebody else who may have applied for jobs or had been overlooked for an opportunity? Like, you know, what was it that you did?

Mystery Guest

Yeah, the most important thing in hindsight was really just making sure I had a lot of good relationships and they ended up being a lot of senior people. I'm not the biggest networker out there and I wasn't, you know, trying to join all the corporate committees and things like that. And I could've, but I tried to do a good job and I also just ended up becoming, you know, close to a number of people who were senior over time. I think it's just because as you know, you work enough with people and you develop a relationship and then you get to know them and because those people were in a position of authority and they trusted me so I actively sort of cultivated those relationships because I was hoping it would help my career down the road. I mean, to be honest, it was more organic, but in hindsight, that is the key, so I was doing it out of a genuine bases, but the reality is had I not done that I probably...my career wouldn't have lasted as long as it did there. So, cultivating those relationships and just knowing who the decision-makers are, you know, cause that can change in a large organization quickly. And, and so being broadly networked, you know, in, in my opinion, in a genuine way, is very helpful.

Maureen Farmer

Of course, of course. Absolutely. So given that hindsight, what might you do a little bit differently if you could go back?

Mystery Guest

So in my career, for example, you know, what happened is I still had really good connections with, uh, some key people, but some of my contacts had moved on to other roles, had moved into organizations. And, as I mentioned, from the standpoint of moving from a regional business to national...I wasn't physically present in the head office quite as much cause I didn't live in the same province. And so that didn't help me in terms of those relationships, but what I should have done was just more actively cultivating relationships with people who were the key decision makers of the time, to establish myself. I really in hindsight should have done maybe a little bit more to create some visibility with myself around some of these, you know...committee work, you can do in a large company, there's nonprofit committee work, you can do. And I just, I didn't really get involved with that stuff. And I think I just didn't have enough profile in the end...when you know, there's always a changing of the guard so...

Maureen Farmer

That's helpful. And I think we all have that experience...if we knew then what we know now, there would be lots we would change. 

So you had a fantastic career with this organization and you had a wonderful career overall so far. And so I would love to talk a little bit about what you're doing now, because I'm really fascinated by the transition you've made. So why don't you talk a little bit about what you're doing now?

Mystery Guest

Sure. I'm involved with two other partners in a restaurant. And, um, and so that happened about a little over a year ago now and I'm likely to invest in a real estate company doing...again, I'm the acting CFO for that company likely to take an equity position in that. So on the restaurant side, basically from an entrepreneur standpoint, uh, I am the managing partner. I'm the only one physically present of the three partners in the province. So I play a very active role in the management of the business. I have a manager in the restaurant, but I'm fairly active. And I mean a little bit of the backdrop is part of the reason I think that I was identified to maybe, you know, partner up with these great people is there was no local leadership in this location. And so what I was able to provide coming in was, you know, a bit of a, obviously a strong background in retail, a focus on the customer and also just enough knowledge about how to make things happen and that local leadership that was really lacking and really needed to be there to help move things along. So, I'm actively doing that. And then on the real estate side, I'm just doing CFO type work for a real estate company. And through this COVID-19, that's been entertaining, but a lot of fun as well. So yeah, it's been fun so far. I'm really enjoying it. It's got some trying days, but...

Maureen Farmer

So, given this transition, you know, you've been out of corporate for a little while now...about a year or so, or maybe a little bit longer...what has surprised you most about entrepreneurship? Because I know that individuals listening to this recording will be very interested in that sort of the magic allure of being your own boss, of entrepreneurship, of the perceived freedom of the lifestyle and, uh, you know, that journey itself. So I wanted to talk a little bit about that.

Mystery Guest

Sure. A couple things that I learned or surprised me and is, you know, it is humbling. And so coming from an executive position into this...where you're fortunate enough to have a team around you that will do work for you, et cetera, et cetera. And then you get into this environment and that team is not there. You know, I do everything from, one minute talking to the lawyers about a deal we're working on or whatever thing we have to kind of manage. And then, you know, later on I'll be washing dishes. So literally the spectrum of activity for the business and the reality is, I mean, what you realize, and typically with the smaller businesses, there's not a lot of support around you. Uh, and you really have to kind of dig down, suck it up in terms of your humility and just go make things happen.

So, I mean, I knew I was in for that, but it's one thing to intellectually understand that, and then it's another thing to be in the middle of it when you're literally washing dishes. So that was an eye opener. Something else was, and this is I think, a confidence boost for anybody who might be thinking about this is, you know, I was nervous coming in about...what am I bringing to the table? I mean, you got all this sort of background from a larger organization coming into something that's smaller and more your own, but I've leaned back a few times on just, you know, there's so many things that...in my career I had learned and you sorta just forget all this stuff in a certain way. And then all of a sudden you're pulling stuff out of your toolkit. It's like, well, this is what we need to do. And you know, the people around you are sorta like, Oh, wow, I never would've thought of that. And you're thinking, God, I did this 10 times. So there's a certain underlying, you know, you have to believe in yourself and you sort of just have to trust the fact that you've learned enough. And at the end of the day, a business is a business and, you know, you have sales and you have, you know, uh, people and, you know, customers. And so there's so many fundamentals. And so somebody thinking about the switch...that part, there's lots you're going to bring that will really help you in that transition. If you're thinking about doing it, number one, absolutely do your homework and know what you're getting into. And when I say do your homework, what I didn't do that I wish I had done was whatever that experience is that you're thinking about investing in or doing...find a way to go do it before you invest. Like in hindsight, I wish I had gone and worked in the restaurant for a week because my opinion on what I was getting into would have been so different. And so do that homework and really understand because it'll really open your eyes. And the other thing is sort of just the importance of partners. If you're investing and you're investing in partners, one guy...I did a whole bunch of research on my own. I met with one guy who said 'the first ship to sink is partnerships', you know? So, if you're getting, you know, into a relationship and an investment with some partners, you know, my strong advice is just make sure you know, who these people are, understand them on a personal level, you know, go to dinner if you don't know...whatever, do whatever it takes to make sure, you know, because once you're in, you're in.

Maureen Farmer

So the due diligence process on the partnership side, as well as the due diligence on the market itself or  the business, the industry or the type of business that you are thinking of investing in. So Andrew, would your decision to invest in this restaurant have changed? Had you gone and worked there for a week beforehand?

Mystery Guest

It might've, it might've. I mean, it's so hands-on that...and I think just to step back for a second, I knew it was going to be a couple of years of heavy lifting to kind of get this where it's going to be. And certainly we've made great progress, so no complaints, but it's a lot of work and I knew it was going to be work. I don't think I realized it was going to be quite this demanding. Um, but I mean, I wouldn't change it and you know, it's opened some other doors for me...that's really neat and I've learned a ton and I just didn't want to have any regrets. I wanted to try this. And so it's, it's all good.

Maureen Farmer

Right. And you did! You did a lot of soul searching and introspection before you signed on with these partners as well and that probably is a good predictor of a good outcome doing the due diligence and really thinking about, you know, what's important to you. What are your values? What are your goals and ensuring that the goals of the partners are aligned with your own regardless of the business, because as you said, business is business 100%, and you said something a couple of minutes ago, I'd love to kind of ask about...you just mentioned about opening doors. So can you talk a little bit about what doors have opened for you there as a result of this business?

Mystery Guest

Sure. Yeah. So as part of the restaurant side, we built another sort of mini restaurant attached to it. And that whole project, you know, was last summer in essence. But part of the reason why I really wanted to do this was because it was a chance for me to connect with the community. And, I'd spent, you know, almost 15 years on a plane and all of my network was sort of...a bit was here locally and the other pieces in the other province where I spent a bunch of time. And so this was a chance for me to get back and do that. And so just as an example, through the construction process of this, you're working with the city, you're working with, you know, the project managers, you get to know the plumbers, you end up dealing with surveyors. And so there's just in that one little example, I got to know all these people. And so then something comes up and you find yourself calling them, and then you just end up developing this network. And it opens so many doors in the local community that when you need something, it's just opened so many doors for me in terms of people to call now. And that's been really sort of neat to see how that's evolved, right?

Maureen Farmer

Yeah, in this construction of this new business, so you've done two things in a very short period of time, you've purchased an existing business and then you've built them a brand new business. So that is a tremendous learning experience for you.

Mystery Guest

Yeah, yeah. It was, uh, last summer was, it was in the blink of an eye. And I mean, one of the most challenging times in terms of the time commitment, and just, again, this is where you're an entrepreneur at your finest. Like you're trying to find a way to sweet talk the city, because you're saying, 'if you give me my permit to open in September, that's too late.' Um, so you're just doing all these things that are...it's very exciting. And, you know, I was lucky enough to have, I should mention my wife is a tremendous ally in this whole process and I couldn't have done it without her. So, you know, and that's another thing as an entrepreneur when you're getting in, I mean, you're dealing with so much stuff. If your partner is not supportive of that, you know, just because it's very difficult to just leave everything at the office. Cause there literally is no office, right. She's stood by me and been my rock in many ways.

Maureen Farmer

And a CPA on top of that! So that's a pretty sweet deal as well.

Mystery Guest

It doesn't hurt, it doesn't hurt.

Maureen Farmer

This is wonderful. So, one final thing I'd love to talk about very briefly is about your volunteerism with a board of directors. You started a few years ago with a local board and now you are on a national board and I'm pivoting a little bit here because I think that anyone listening to this recording, if he or she is looking at career development and growth and to do this authentically, as you say, this is an authentic process, but you know, taking the time and opportunity to lend your skills and knowledge and sometimes influence to a nonprofit organization can also raise your visibility. Would you agree with that?

Mystery Guest

Oh, 100%. A hundred percent actually. Maureen and I, we worked together for like probably whatever that was five, six years ago. And I needed some counselling because I sort of had this gap in terms of my, you know, not having a local presence. And so after doing some thinking about that, I really want to just reestablish myself locally. And so a charity was a great way to do that. And so I picked one that was sort of important to me and I felt that was really important, again, to be genuine and, you know, not just do it for the contacts, but being able to pour into something that is more than that. And so anyways, I picked the charity and yeah, one thing sort of led to another and I mean, I'm actually...I've been the board chair for the last three years...I'm coming rolling off in June. That's the provincial board. And then last fall, I joined the national board.

I'm taking on some other governance work there for them, but yeah, it's been a great way...I mean, locally, you know, everybody in that board knows about my business and I don't go around selling it, but it's, you know, if you do good work there and I feel like I've done pretty good work, you get to talk to people and they want to know a little bit about your story. And then, yeah, it's just a great way to sort of connect them with the community. And, you know, I've leveraged that in terms of, even just asking for some advice from time to time from some of the people on the board that you respect and trust and it's been a really good experience and I think as I get credit for that...for other people, and certainly my family appreciates that commitment that I'm making on behalf of this charity that like I said is important to our whole family.

Maureen Farmer

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That personal connection is important. Um, just in terms of meaningfulness and being authentic so forth. I completely get that. Yeah.

So Andrew, I'd love to just wind down here and say, first of all, thank you so much for participating in the call. And if you had one or two pieces of advice to other people maybe who are in a corporate role right now who are looking at stepping up in the organization, or maybe stepping out...what kind of career management advice would you give to that person?

Mystery Guest

So, you're gonna have to be proactively managing your career and be thoughtful about that. So that means having a profile. And that means, you know, doing some of those things. And again, highly suggested that you do it in a way that feels genuine. Cause many people, I know don't "love networking" with air quotes. Um, but if you find a way to do something that is genuine, it really feels very different. Work on that profile!

And then the other thing is just really make sure you understand within the organization who the decision-makers are and make sure, you know, if you visualize that sort of executive table and that group that sits around that table, if you can't pick one or two of those people that are at that table, that would vote for you...that's a problem. And so work on those relationships and make sure you got a couple of people. And I didn't mention this before, but just one thing is, you know, having a mentor inside the organization, right? Just somebody you can trust who's been around, who's hopefully more senior who can give you some guidance. I mean, critical. And people typically, as long as they like you and have respect for you would be happy to help. So yeah, so those relationships are really important as well.

Maureen Farmer

Okay. So is there anything else that you would like to say before we sign off Andrew?

Mystery Guest

Other than, you know, you should spend some time working with Maureen. She was great for me. We had a great experience, I must say, and she really opened my eyes and challenged me. So, that was awesome. Um, and that's why I'm happy to do this and share, you know, the fact that it was great working with you. So I'm happy to do this.

Maureen Farmer

That's wonderful. And so for anyone interested in having a look at our website, it's Westgate career coaching.com. And I just want to say again, Andrew, thank you so much for taking the time today. You've been a huge supporter of my organization and I'm looking forward to learning what's next in your business.

Mystery Guest

Yeah, it was my pleasure. Thank you. And best of luck to you as well.

Maureen Farmer

Thank you, Andrew. Take care.

Mystery Guest

Okay. Thank you. Bye-bye.